Just out of curiousity, why do some people have a problem with Toshi's production on some of the Melvins albums? I think it's just fine. It's not overproduced, and despite everything the guitar is still mixed fine and crisp.
i think his production is not bad but i would like to hear a bigger drum sound in the mix.
shit sounds great...props for mixing two drum sets with such clarity.
Quote from: >>>JZS<<< on June 08, 2009, 12:52:00 PM
shit sounds great...props for mixing two drum sets with such clarity.
so I suppose you're starting to think I follow you around and shit on everything you post. :D
BLOOD WITCH: coulda been sharper. I hate that little compression thing at the end of every beat.
like: "CHUG! (compression) CHUG! CHUG! CHUG! (compression) CHUG CHUG CHUG! (compression)
I don't get why toshi couldn't take that out.
Quote from: glen on June 08, 2009, 12:58:48 PM
Quote from: >>>JZS<<< on June 08, 2009, 12:52:00 PM
shit sounds great...props for mixing two drum sets with such clarity.
so I suppose you're starting to think I follow you around and shit on everything you post. :D
BLOOD WITCH: coulda been sharper. I hate that little compression thing at the end of every beat.
like: "CHUG! (compression) CHUG! CHUG! CHUG! (compression) CHUG CHUG CHUG! (compression)
I don't get why toshi couldn't take that out.
you can't be serious .
what do you think of the drum sound of this glen? :D
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0002ZDWEO.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg)
Quote from: black stallion on June 08, 2009, 01:13:34 PM
what do you think of the drum sound of this glen? :D
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0002ZDWEO.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg)
in more than one way, this is such a perfect album.
serious as serious gets.
go listen. I'm telling you. pop in (A)SA right now. skip to blood witch.
you don't hear that?
it bugs me. the song is supposed to be sharp and bursty. now listen to a live version of the same track. the compression is gone. it sounds so much better.
MELVINS are the greatest sound making machine of all time. no question.
but its okay to find some fault once in a while. they'll forgive me for it.
and hey stallion.. the drums on WWS sound 197% mindblowing. did toshi record them? me thinks not. besides.. I'm not knocking the sound of the drums. I'm knocking the failure to remove what I hear as a glitch. and if I may be so bold as to rebutt myself.. I would venture to guess that buzz osborne might say "its supposed to sound like that".
Quote from: glen on June 08, 2009, 01:18:47 PM
and hey stallion.. the drums on WWS sound 197% mindblowing. did toshi record them? me thinks not.
i have no problem with Toshi as engineer,he's good.anyway, besides the Atlantic era,where guess they had a different budget for the recording session(Stoner Witch in my opinion has the best drum sound in history of music),i have to say the lower budget production on Lysol/Eggnog was my favourite so far,speaking of drum sound.about WWS i think you have to thank this man
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3400/3548825915_5a1086b3de.jpg)
Quote from: glen on June 08, 2009, 01:18:47 PM
it bugs me. the song is supposed to be sharp and bursty. now listen to a live version of the same track. the compression is gone. it sounds so much better.
live is always different. .......And,yeah, how do you know how it's ''supposed'' to sound like ? :) Recording is so subjective,so, I mean no ones perception can be wrong.
I hear a lot of studio acoustics in his mixes. His mixes sound like they involve a lot more room miking as opposed to individually miking each instrument. If you listen closely to the drums you can hear the echos and reverberation coming off the walls in the studio. I don't really mind his style of mixing but I think his drum sound is a little thin.
Melvins should sound HUGE.
And I agree. Lysol and WWS are a good (i mean the best?) example of how drums should sound. And you can add High on Fire's Blessed Blck Wings to that list as well (the bass and drums together sound just PERFECT on that album... that part in Face of Oblivion with the snare and bass pounding behind the guitar riffing? damn...).
Quote from: glen on June 08, 2009, 01:18:47 PM
serious as serious gets.
go listen. I'm telling you. pop in (A)SA right now. skip to blood witch.
you don't hear that?
it bugs me. the song is supposed to be sharp and bursty. now listen to a live version of the same track. the compression is gone. it sounds so much better.
MELVINS are the greatest sound making machine of all time. no question.
but its okay to find some fault once in a while. they'll forgive me for it.
and hey stallion.. the drums on WWS sound 197% mindblowing. did toshi record them? me thinks not. besides.. I'm not knocking the sound of the drums. I'm knocking the failure to remove what I hear as a glitch. and if I may be so bold as to rebutt myself.. I would venture to guess that buzz osborne might say "its supposed to sound like that".
yeah the noise gates are in full effect on this record. personally i think albini should handle the drums.
Toshi's production is great, H.A.T. is probably my favorite. I think that album has the best drum sound.
Buzz has stated before that he purposely doesn't want studio albums to sound exactly like live shows and vice versa(TV Eye Vol 3 interview), and I get that.
I didn't know Toshi did H.A.T. too. That disc has some of my favorite production on a Melvins album
They need to do THE WALL OF SOUND!!
My thoughts.....Toshi is great, Billy is great. Sorry Glen everyone kicks much ass. :D :D/So do you. Share the love........ :D/
I think Toshi does a fine job. I just wish they still recorded to tape ala Lysol and Houdini. These Pro Tools or Logic recordings just sound like corners have been cut.
Quote from: glen on June 08, 2009, 01:18:47 PMI would venture to guess that buzz osborne might say "its supposed to sound like that".
I think he would say that, and he would be telling the truth. Are you referring to the drums on Blood Witch or the guitar? There's definitely some kind of gated non-linear reverb on the drums, as well as some amount of compression on everything. Those are both things that are added to recordings by choice, not mistakes that are removed.
I think in general Toshi kicks serious ass as an engineer. The Melvins haven't used nearly as much massive reverb on the drums in recent years as on the earlier albums, except for sparingly as an effect (Houdini Live for example). I think that was probably a conscious decision on the their part. Records don't typically have as much reverb in general these days as the early '90s. Personally I prefer a balance between room and close mic sounds on drums. An example of amazing room mic sound is Primus' Brown Album. Some of the tracks on that album have drums recorded with 1 mic pushing tape super hot for massive natural compression. I think Steve Albini is one of the best engineers ever at documenting the live sound of drums in a room. My personal favorite drum sound is probably a tie between In Utero and Lysol (didn't Billy record that). Those albums both have a really nice ambient room sound like the Brown Album, but also have the in your face impact of close micing. Of course what matters most is the musicians themselves, and nothing makes drums sound bigger (and in my opinion better) than a drummer that can beat the living shit out of their kit ala Dale or Dave Grohl in his Nirvana years.
Another drum sound I really like is tons of compression ala the Empirical Labs Distressor mixed with lots of reverb. Listen to Really Fucking Nasty/Savage Hippy. That's what's going on there.
Quote from: I am the Sun on June 08, 2009, 05:33:34 PM
I don't really mind his style of mixing but I think his drum sound is a little thin.
that's exactly what i meant
Quote from: I am the Sun on June 08, 2009, 08:18:13 PM
I didn't know Toshi did H.A.T. too. That disc has some of my favorite production on a Melvins album
that actually was the firts Melvins album he produced.
he did HAT too? thass good
i miss the organic/surreal feel of honky/HAT ... nowadays they sound too sterile
toshi kicks ass indeed. I wouldn't trade him.
haven't you ever heard of "sake of argument"?
the recording of blood witch is a drop in the bucket.
but I guess I hear blood witch as a similar song to the bloated pope. sharp and punchy.
and when the chug hits you the idea, in my head at least, is that it comes and goes quickly and with great contrast to the silence in between each chug.
and then theres this little echo from the drums after each beat. I wish it wasn't there.
beyond that the sound itself is great on any and all of toshi's work. clean and well mixed.
*prepares to drag his own cross to his crucifiction site*
but to expand on this subject.. I think toshi is the perfect fit. its more like a team effort with (I'm guessing) buzz and dale sticking their fingers in every aspect of recording and mixing.
as opposed to some johnny-come-lately producer or engineer who their record label insisted they use to get that "hot" sound that all the kids are buying. a guy (or gal) who goes "NO! NO! NO! not like that! its wrong! ALL WRONG! now do it again except with EMOTION! do you want to go gold or don't you?" and then storms out of the studio in a hissy fit.
I have a very vivid imagination.
Quote from: glen on June 09, 2009, 06:37:05 AM
haven't you ever heard of "sake of argument"?
sure, but has it ever worked on the internet? its seldom.
i have had interesting discussions on a 1 tot 1 basis, but never in a thread like this.
Quote from: Jaron on June 08, 2009, 09:15:21 PM
They need to do THE WALL OF SOUND!!
i watched a documentary about phil spector last week, nice fellow, very humble.
maybe its new melvins direction but vocals are way too loud in the mix in recent years - that's the only issue i have. suicide in progress is just a recent example....drums and guitar are THE MOST IMPORTANT ELEMENT in all of melvins previous work but there is a big shift to the vocals now and smaller drums.
hey it's all personal opinion, but for me that's the only bitch i have and i always will bitch about things like this because i have 1000 posts on a fucking melvins forum.
we all know Lysol drum sound rules supreme. we also all know that Stoner Witch is the best recorded melvins album. i just hope they can get that balance right again.
Quote from: glen on June 09, 2009, 06:37:05 AM
and then theres this little echo from the drums after each beat. I wish it wasn't there.
That's what I thought you meant. That's a reverb that's added to the drums, not some mistake they chose not to fix. Definitely a conscious choice on someone's part. Not that that makes it good though.
It'd be interesting to hear them work with someone different for the next album, like maybe Evil Joe Barresi or Billy Anderson again, or someone new like Steve Albini or the team of Mel Dettmer/Randall Dunn... Now those folks can record some drums!
Quote from: Like Stee on June 09, 2009, 11:23:06 AM
Quote from: glen on June 09, 2009, 06:37:05 AM
and then theres this little echo from the drums after each beat. I wish it wasn't there.
That's what I thought you meant. That's a reverb that's added to the drums, not some mistake they chose not to fix. Definitely a conscious choice on someone's part. Not that that makes it good though.
It'd be interesting to hear them work with someone different for the next album, like maybe Evil Joe Barresi or Billy Anderson again, or someone new like Steve Albini or the team of Mel Dettmer/Randall Dunn... Now those folks can record some drums!
I like Albini drums,but they are just that, Albini drums...Y'all are a critical bunch(nothing wrong with that),but I would listen to the Melvins through a tin can connected by string to a mini-cassette player and find more positives than negatives.....I like Billy
Anderson too,so if the Melvins were to go backwards to an old producer, I would vote for Billy.
Quote from: norecess on June 09, 2009, 06:49:26 AM
Quote from: glen on June 09, 2009, 06:37:05 AM
haven't you ever heard of "sake of argument"?
sure, but has it ever worked on the internet? its seldom.
i have had interesting discussions on a 1 tot 1 basis, but never in a thread like this.
*see obama/forum etiquette thread*
Quote from: >>>JZS<<< on June 09, 2009, 12:13:36 PM
Quote from: Like Stee on June 09, 2009, 11:23:06 AM
Quote from: glen on June 09, 2009, 06:37:05 AM
and then theres this little echo from the drums after each beat. I wish it wasn't there.
That's what I thought you meant. That's a reverb that's added to the drums, not some mistake they chose not to fix. Definitely a conscious choice on someone's part. Not that that makes it good though.
It'd be interesting to hear them work with someone different for the next album, like maybe Evil Joe Barresi or Billy Anderson again, or someone new like Steve Albini or the team of Mel Dettmer/Randall Dunn... Now those folks can record some drums!
I like Albini drums,but they are just that, Albini drums...Y'all are a critical bunch(nothing wrong with that),but I would listen to the Melvins through a tin can connected by string to a mini-cassette player and find more positives than negatives.....I like Billy
Anderson too,so if the Melvins were to go backwards to an old producer, I would vote for Billy.
I agree wholeheartedly.
The Surfer Rosa album by the Pixies has a great drum sound too. I will say this about Albini, he knows how to record drums.
I thought I read somewhere the drums on Lysol were triggered samples from "Houses of the Holy"
Just the snare.
Toshi doesn't produce, the Melvins produce. Toshi just hits record. They were already going with a thinner drum sound on the Trilogy stuff, probably because it makes it different to the older stuff, which Buzz is very much in favour of.
Quote from: FART LIPS on June 08, 2009, 07:57:18 PM
Quote from: glen on June 08, 2009, 01:18:47 PM
serious as serious gets.
go listen. I'm telling you. pop in (A)SA right now. skip to blood witch.
you don't hear that?
it bugs me. the song is supposed to be sharp and bursty. now listen to a live version of the same track. the compression is gone. it sounds so much better.
MELVINS are the greatest sound making machine of all time. no question.
but its okay to find some fault once in a while. they'll forgive me for it.
and hey stallion.. the drums on WWS sound 197% mindblowing. did toshi record them? me thinks not. besides.. I'm not knocking the sound of the drums. I'm knocking the failure to remove what I hear as a glitch. and if I may be so bold as to rebutt myself.. I would venture to guess that buzz osborne might say "its supposed to sound like that".
personally i think albini should handle the drums.
word.
I said that a long time ago here and I got shit for it.
plpky p
Albini is great, yes, but not all the time. I hate to say it, but the drum sound on some of the tracks on Silkworm's "Firewater" CD, of which he recorded, leaves much to be desired. I know he was probably going for that sound, but it sounds kinda washed out and doesn't stack up to the other fine Silkworm albums he recorded.
Quote from: Leroy on June 10, 2009, 09:28:37 AM
Albini is great, yes, but not all the time. I hate to say it, but the drum sound on some of the tracks on Silkworm's "Firewater" CD, of which he recorded, leaves much to be desired. I know he was probably going for that sound, but it sounds kinda washed out and doesn't stack up to the other fine Silkworm albums he recorded.
out of the thousands of records the guy has recorded... Im sure there theres going to be some blemishes on some of them.
He does a killer drum and bass sound... But I cant imagine how he would get buzz's guitar to sound.
My favorite record that Albini has engineered is HOF-Blessed Black Wings,
followed very closely by Rapeman-Two Nuns and a Pack Mule
I didn't know that Albini worked on Blessed Black Wings. The sound quality on that album is a lot different than any indie rock record he has done. Albini can sure switch it up.
not bad for an analog loyalist. :lol:
albini's a douche but I love him.
Quote from: Uncle Fester on June 10, 2009, 03:44:46 PM
albini's a douche but I love him.
My feeling exactly. The dude's a total weirdo (he makes his interns and assistants wear orange jumpsuits), but he can record some damn fine drums. OM's Pilgrimage is another good example.
Quote from: Like Stee on June 10, 2009, 04:24:53 PM
Quote from: Uncle Fester on June 10, 2009, 03:44:46 PM
albini's a douche but I love him.
My feeling exactly. The dude's a total weirdo (he makes his interns and assistants wear orange jumpsuits), but he can record some damn fine drums. OM's Pilgrimage is another good example.
I like the weird.... its his views on certain things I cant really relate to... but who cares?
Quote from: Leroy on June 08, 2009, 12:17:54 PM
Just out of curiousity, why do some people have a problem with Toshi's production on some of the Melvins albums? I think it's just fine. It's not overproduced, and despite everything the guitar is still mixed fine and crisp.
Because the miscreants have tin ears, that's why.
ITS ALL ABOUT PHIL SPECTOR!! i think he shoudl produce a jail house rock album!!
I like Toshi's production. Didn't he record HAT as well?
yes, he did HAT, and even played some keyboards on it a little bit. He was also the engineer for POTRE.
Quote from: Rand E. Hawkins on June 11, 2009, 01:46:27 AM
Because the miscreants have tin ears, that's why.
I love it when you show up.
Quote from: kurva on June 08, 2009, 05:51:54 PM
And you can add High on Fire's Blessed Blck Wings to that list as well (the bass and drums together sound just PERFECT on that album... that part in Face of Oblivion with the snare and bass pounding behind the guitar riffing? damn...).
Damn, I was just listening to this exact part when I read your post... and I agree.
And I think Toshi's production on HAT is top notch.
Quote from: Leroy on June 11, 2009, 08:54:02 AM
yes, he did HAT, and even played some keyboards on it a little bit. He was also the engineer for POTRE.
Yeah but that album was a heavily treated album. You can't really identify his mark on it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig_OXRshmIY
The platinum records in the bafroom is awesome.
Good interview, thanks.
Toshi is seriously one of the nicest, funniest and most bad ass people I have ever met. I got to record at Sound of Sirens once and it was a blast. Probably the easiest engineer / producer I have ever worked with - makes everything fun, has a killer ear and gets amazing results.
I think I can see why he and Buzz have this long relationship working together. He seems easy-going, and he knows what works for him without being too "learned" about everything.
Nowi have to listen to Bulls & Bees for that hallway sound. From memory "National Hamster" has a pretty live club sound but I could be wrong.
Quote from: amazonAMAZON on June 29, 2018, 02:58:19 PM
Nowi have to listen to Bulls & Bees for that hallway sound. From memory "National Hamster" has a pretty live club sound but I could be wrong.
I'm pretty sure the Christmas Day hallway recording story was for Female Trouble with Trevor. Unless they did this more than once.
I've talked to Toshi a couple times at shows. Really nice guy.
The fact that his studio is Sound of Silence in a Japanese accent is fucking hilarious.
How about the drum and lumberjack intro to "War on Wisdom" for that hallway sound?
Also I started looking for any indie/off-the-radar bits I missed from Toshi's production catalog. Right now I'm digging (big) pig - Puerco Grande. Looking for more suggestions.
Quote from: Mints on June 29, 2018, 06:34:15 PM
The fact that his studio is Sound of Silence in a Japanese accent is fucking hilarious.
Bruh.....just this moment got that.