https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/brick-brick/201709/the-melvins-are-not-screwing-you
The Melvins Are Not Screwing With You
Pioneers of grunge discuss single-minded focus that led to their success.
Many seminal punk bands seemed to relish in shocking and challenging their audience, with everything from their music and lyrics to their live performances. Sitting back and enjoying the music was simply not an option. Whether it was Suicide's Alan Vega intensely shrieking and rolling on the stage, The Sex Pistols' John Lydon claiming to be both antichrist and anarchist, or Flipper deliberately playing slow, droning music to hardcore fans used to 30-second songs: Punk demanded our attention.
So it's natural to assume that the Melvins are also messing with us.
After all, the Melvins emerged in part from the punk and hardcore scene and are considered one of the originators of grunge, a hybrid of hardcore punk and metal that came out of Seattle. The Melvins, along with bands such as Green River and Soundgarden, were part of the Deep Six compilation that is perhaps the first seminal grunge compilation and helped set the stage for the success of bands like Mudhoney and Nirvana.
And the Melvins have a long history of taking their audience all over the place. As an example, their most recent double album A Walk with Love and Death. The Guardian describes the album as "utterly uncompromising...hard not to admire the band's continued willingness to bash at the boundaries of extreme music."
But in talking with Buzz Osborne and Dale Crover of the Melvins, who have been playing together for 35 years, you soon come to realize that they are not messing with us. They are not trying to confront those who don't get them to evoke some reaction.
On the contrary, if you don't get them, they don't care.
And this apathy is perhaps an even more confrontational stance and, inadvertently, messes with us the most. Because what's more disturbing: Being confronted with someone who is trying to mess with you and so is at least acknowledging your existence? Or someone who truly does not care about your opinion?
Crover knew early on that the Melvins didn't care what others thought. He recalled seeing the Melvins before he joined the band and being struck by their independence and originality. "Even before I was in the band, I saw how people looked at those guys. And they looked at them differently—because they were different. They were different looking from anyone else," he described. "We're a pretty odd band. We're pretty odd for most people to wrap their head around."
And receiving negative feedback did nothing but reflect and further shape the Melvins' independent attitude. "There were a lot of people that just did not get it at all. In 1985, my first year of being in the band, we played in this place in Salt Lake City. It was this hippie warehouse place—there was a punk rock show there," he said. "We were staying there and it was someone's father who ran the place. And he said, 'You guys should give up. You're no good. You guys should think of something else to do. Don't play music.' We've been dealing with that forever."
"I didn't care—I knew it was good."
Osborne concurs and, as the founder and only original member of the Melvins still in the band, he has been very clear in his vision from day one. And he has little time for people who aren't on board. "I'm very strong in my ideas about what is good and what is bad, and vary very little off of that plane. And I think that we would not exist had I not had that idea from the beginning. I always knew I was right about what we were doing," Osborne explained. "I'm not trying to please people. I'm just trying to do what I like. And if I like it, I figure other people will like it.
"And so far I haven't been wrong."
And as for people who don't like the Melvins' music or approach to music, Osborne doesn't concern himself with their opinions. "There's not much I can do about it. And there's not much I do about it. I leave it...They're lost in their own opinions and their own ideas about how things work. And even their own ideas about how I work. And generally speaking, they're 100 percent off the mark," Osborne said. "If you don't like it, there's nothing I can do about it. It's none of my business whether you like it or not. It means very little to me."
One of the reasons that Osborne feels that people may not understand the Melvins is that they are conformists who do not truly understand the independent mindset of the band. "They're conformists. The worst people for that are the ones who don't believe they're conformists. They believe that they are free people. And they conform in every area of their lives, all the time," Osborne described. "The hipsters—they're the biggest conformists of all. They can't do anything without looking over their shoulder and see what everyone else is doing. They can't. It's not possible. I've been down that road and watched it happen for years and years and years.
"I'm not a part of that existence."
To further illustrate his disdain for conformity, Osborne quoted a passage from the movie Easy Rider in which Jack Nicholson discusses how frightening truly independent people can be to conformists: "'If you start telling people they're not free they'll start freaking out and killing and maiming to prove that they are. But if they actually see someone who is free, it's really going to scare them. And then they become dangerous.'"
Osborne reserves particular bile for people who dedicate themselves to critiquing others. From his perspective, it is never a good idea to feel that one has to defend their art. "As soon as you start defending yourself, now you're backtracking...now you are weak. Only weaklings defend themselves. A f------ critic? F--- you. They don't know me. They don't know anything about me...What sort of person wants to criticize somebody else's work? That's pretty f----- up," Osborne explained. "I cannot do anything for them and I do not owe them an explanation...If someone wants to write a s----- review about what I'm doing, there's nothing I can do about that."
"I'm just going to let you wallow in your own bulls---."
The fact that the Melvins so baldly disregard the opinion of others makes the notion that they are intentionally messing with people on their albums seem laughable.
"It'll be like, 'They're just screwing with us with this record.' Well no – not at all. I've never done that – ever. Why would I do that? It doesn't make sense. You think I'm going to go through all this trouble just to screw with people?" Osborne explained. "No I like what we do. I expect you to like it. If you want to like it I think you should like it."
But the Melvins are quick to say that being independent-minded is not enough. If you aren't going to work hard, pack it in. Because it is hard work that gives us a better opportunity for independence and freedom.
"You cannot get successful in any area of your life by only working forty hours a week. It's impossible. It's impossible to view your life as a 40-hour work week with weekends off. That's the key to failure," Osborne described. "If you want to work twice as hard at something so you can be your own boss – do that. I didn't like having a boss. I worked 3, 4, or 5 times as much as I did before in order to not have one. I figured that out on my own. And guess what? I didn't go to college.
"Just get out of my way and we'll be all right."
"It's not always easy. It's not for everybody. It's hard to be away from home. It's not always comfortable...It's a weird life being a professional musician and traveling. It gets to people," Crover explained. "We've always told ourselves—remember why we're here. We're working, making money. We're not on a vacation. It's certainly better than a lot of people's jobs. Most people hate their jobs."
In contrast to their feelings about people who didn't understand or appreciate them, the Melvins are quite open about their appreciation for their fans. "We have super dedicated fans who are into what we're doing and exactly what the story is. I'm not talking about them. Those are the people I totally appreciate," Osborne said.
"They're totally there with me."
Certainly, the Melvins' approach is working – from a commercial perspective, they have been viable for 35 years. "We keep doing what we're doing and it keeps getting better. Even still, after this long, we can go out and tour and we seem to keep drawing more people and keep doing well," Crover said. "We never went out and lost money—we always made money. If we had done a bunch of tours where we lost money we probably would have thought, 'OK this isn't working' and would have been done."
"If we were a money-losing band there would be no labels that wanted to do anything with us. So there you go," Osborne said.
And Crover is always pleasantly surprised when he discovers that they've converted people who may not have initially appreciated the Melvins' music.
"I mean we're talking about '86 and we're playing in Florida and a bunch of Nazi skinheads show up at the show and cause a bunch of trouble," Crover said. "Then we go back there two years later and everyone's got long hair and saying, 'I remember seeing you guys.' And I thought, Huh...
"Were you one of the guys who hated us?"
Your formatted copy+pasting of articles and interviews does not go unappreciated, Jules
(https://media.giphy.com/media/lsr3605ZkSCpG/giphy.gif)
how'd this stay buried for almost a year?
Quote from: Oscar on June 09, 2018, 03:21:35 PM
Your formatted copy+pasting of articles and interviews does not go unappreciated, Jules
(https://media.giphy.com/media/lsr3605ZkSCpG/giphy.gif)
i second that.
Good interview. I must admit that us against the world mentality that comes through in interviews with Buzz can be a bit off-putting in interviews but it's been shaped from 35 years worth of experiences and is clearly fuel that keeps his fire burning.
Another memorable moment in those Spin 51 in 51 tour diary entries was when they pulled into some town and how the appearance of Buzz was freaking people out and turning heads and Crover said something about how Buzz is a truly free individual and when people are confronted with a truly free individual who doesn't give a fuck what you think of them it freaks people out.
I've always admired Buzz's brash and, ahem, bullheaded attitude. I wish I was more like that myself.
Quote from: aeustin on June 11, 2018, 05:21:57 AM
I've always admired Buzz's brash and, ahem, bullheaded attitude. I wish I was more like that myself.
Im not sure anyone should aspire exactly to that. Much like yourself i admire that Buzz does what he wants and his personal take on creativity, but at the same time he strikes me as far too stubborn and dismissive at times.
Quote from: ))))(((( on June 11, 2018, 11:16:32 AM
Quote from: aeustin on June 11, 2018, 05:21:57 AM
I've always admired Buzz's brash and, ahem, bullheaded attitude. I wish I was more like that myself.
Im not sure anyone should aspire exactly to that. Much like yourself i admire that Buzz does what he wants and his personal take on creativity, but at the same time he strikes me as far too stubborn and dismissive at times.
Yeah, this pretty much. People who define themselves by their contrarianism grate on my nerves big-time, especially when they've achieved some manner of personal success so that smugness and arrogance are added to the mix (or amplified when they were already there). I get where he's coming from here and with a lot of other things he says, but that attitude is still a big example of why, to an extent, I'm kind of a Melvins fan
in spite of Buzz.
Quote from: DToxico on June 15, 2018, 07:29:03 AM
Quote from: ))))(((( on June 11, 2018, 11:16:32 AM
Quote from: aeustin on June 11, 2018, 05:21:57 AM
I've always admired Buzz's brash and, ahem, bullheaded attitude. I wish I was more like that myself.
Im not sure anyone should aspire exactly to that. Much like yourself i admire that Buzz does what he wants and his personal take on creativity, but at the same time he strikes me as far too stubborn and dismissive at times.
Yeah, this pretty much. People who define themselves by their contrarianism grate on my nerves big-time, especially when they've achieved some manner of personal success so that smugness and arrogance are added to the mix (or amplified when they were already there). I get where he's coming from here and with a lot of other things he says, but that attitude is still a big example of why, to an extent, I'm kind of a Melvins fan in spite of Buzz.
Couldn't have said it better myself. That's exactly the same as i see it.
I will say I never get tired of that "some guy's dad" story from early in their careers. Buzz or Dale both seem to bring it up every so often and it's funny, but also interesting how it clearly had an impact on them (even though it may not have been the intended one)
Quote from: DToxico on June 15, 2018, 02:55:08 PM
I will say I never get tired of that "some guy's dad" story from early in their careers. Buzz or Dale both seem to bring it up every so often and it's funny, but also interesting how it clearly had an impact on them (even though it may not have been the intended one)
Yeah I'd say it had the opposite effect of what the dad was aiming for.
I don't think i've ever heard this one actually. I assume it was someone telling them NOT to tour or perform music?
Reminds of how the band D.R.I. got their band name from practicing at one of the members' house and his dad calling them a bunch of dirty rotten imbeciles.
Needless to say they rolled with it.
Also, being a Melvins fan in spite of Buzz? Come on.
I agree he can be a bit too stuck up, but he's still a huge inspiration.
If he wasn't who he is, Melvins wouldn't be Melvins, so that's a really silly thing to say.
One has to be stubborn to get to certain things in life.
I don't see anything wrong with aspiring to not to take shit from anyone, work hard, and learn on others' mistakes.
Quote from: Fureon Nectarmoon on June 16, 2018, 03:22:59 PM
Also, being a Melvins fan in spite of Buzz? Come on.
I agree he can be a bit too stuck up, but he's still a huge inspiration.
If he wasn't who he is, Melvins wouldn't be Melvins, so that's a really silly thing to say.
One has to be stubborn to get to certain things in life.
I don't see anything wrong with aspiring to not to take shit from anyone, work hard, and learn on others' mistakes.
That's all true but it can get a bit much with Buzz sometimes. I understand that mindset of his is in large part due to the band's early days when they were rejected by their local scene and they especially Buzz developed a steely resolve in that they 'knew' they were right and everyone else (their scene) was wrong. There's also a lot of a punk DIY mentality in there too go out and do what you want fuck the establishment (major record labels etc).
That doggedness and single minded mentality permeates his interviews it's clearly a large part of what drives him and keeps him going but I do think his taking shots at other bands/artists over the years (speaking the truth as he would see it) has also hurt them and burnt a number of bridges. Not just Dave Grohl Buzz had a falling out with Patton at one point where they didn't speak for a few years despite being on his label then all the bass players they've gone through too.
It's the negativity and/or taking shots at other bands that I've never liked with his interviews. He's not as bad as he used to be with that stuff these days and that's probably age.
I could do without excessive negativity aimed at others as well.
But that's just how it is, you take the bad with the good.
The thing is, brilliant songs like You've Never Been Right, or The Fool, The Meddling Idiot come from the same emotional source as what we're talking about.
It's crucial. If it wasn't there, the Melvins' songs just wouldn't sound the way they are.
Obviously it's best when Buzz channels his spite into creating great music, and not so great when he takes it out on specific people.
But still. It would be hypocritical to like the band "in spite of" his character, because that part of his character is one of the things integral to their music.
Also, I've learned that it's much, much better to never completely idolize or demonize people.
Life just doesn't work like that. There is often duality and shades of gray.
A few bad traits or flaws in ideology don't necessarily make a bad person or an invalid example.
That being said, I do understand not being able to stand certain traits that get on your nerves.
I've met some people I tried my best to be friends with despite some things in them pissing me off, but ultimately had to distance myself from.
Quote from: Bigval on June 17, 2018, 02:42:30 AM
Quote from: Fureon Nectarmoon on June 16, 2018, 03:22:59 PM
Also, being a Melvins fan in spite of Buzz? Come on.
I agree he can be a bit too stuck up, but he's still a huge inspiration.
If he wasn't who he is, Melvins wouldn't be Melvins, so that's a really silly thing to say.
One has to be stubborn to get to certain things in life.
I don't see anything wrong with aspiring to not to take shit from anyone, work hard, and learn on others' mistakes.
That's all true but it can get a bit much with Buzz sometimes. I understand that mindset of his is in large part due to the band's early days when they were rejected by their local scene and they especially Buzz developed a steely resolve in that they 'knew' they were right and everyone else (their scene) was wrong. There's also a lot of a punk DIY mentality in there too go out and do what you want fuck the establishment (major record labels etc).
That doggedness and single minded mentality permeates his interviews it's clearly a large part of what drives him and keeps him going but I do think his taking shots at other bands/artists over the years (speaking the truth as he would see it) has also hurt them and burnt a number of bridges. Not just Dave Grohl Buzz had a falling out with Patton at one point where they didn't speak for a few years despite being on his label then all the bass players they've gone through too.
It's the negativity and/or taking shots at other bands that I've never liked with his interviews. He's not as bad as he used to be with that stuff these days and that's probably age.
Good observations. He's definitely toned it down within the last ten years.
Quote from: bUTTHOLEmAN on June 17, 2018, 01:16:37 PM
Quote from: Bigval on June 17, 2018, 02:42:30 AM
Quote from: Fureon Nectarmoon on June 16, 2018, 03:22:59 PM
Also, being a Melvins fan in spite of Buzz? Come on.
I agree he can be a bit too stuck up, but he's still a huge inspiration.
If he wasn't who he is, Melvins wouldn't be Melvins, so that's a really silly thing to say.
One has to be stubborn to get to certain things in life.
I don't see anything wrong with aspiring to not to take shit from anyone, work hard, and learn on others' mistakes.
That's all true but it can get a bit much with Buzz sometimes. I understand that mindset of his is in large part due to the band's early days when they were rejected by their local scene and they especially Buzz developed a steely resolve in that they 'knew' they were right and everyone else (their scene) was wrong. There's also a lot of a punk DIY mentality in there too go out and do what you want fuck the establishment (major record labels etc).
That doggedness and single minded mentality permeates his interviews it's clearly a large part of what drives him and keeps him going but I do think his taking shots at other bands/artists over the years (speaking the truth as he would see it) has also hurt them and burnt a number of bridges. Not just Dave Grohl Buzz had a falling out with Patton at one point where they didn't speak for a few years despite being on his label then all the bass players they've gone through too.
It's the negativity and/or taking shots at other bands that I've never liked with his interviews. He's not as bad as he used to be with that stuff these days and that's probably age.
Good observations. He's definitely toned it down within the last ten years.
there is a bitterness that lingers I think from Dale and Buzz both. they say "what can I do about negative reviews? nothing! so fuck 'em!" (for example) but then notice how quickly they both go on the defense when someone says their album sucks. moreso with Dale it seems. he seems a little edgy and almost confrontational about it. look what happened here a few years ago. we all almost got banned for having the nerve express an opinion that wasn't "EVERYTHING THEY DO IS GOLD!". and whatever.. I get pissed off when someone critiques my hard work too. they're just one of those bands. either you get it or you don't. they aren't doing anything that is exposing them to new audiences at this point so I'm not even sure why critique is relevant. you and I will eat it up regardless. in fact we'll probably be even more drawn to bad reviews because that kind of what MELVINS are about.
Quote from: glen on June 18, 2018, 09:59:08 AM
Quote from: bUTTHOLEmAN on June 17, 2018, 01:16:37 PM
Quote from: Bigval on June 17, 2018, 02:42:30 AM
Quote from: Fureon Nectarmoon on June 16, 2018, 03:22:59 PM
Also, being a Melvins fan in spite of Buzz? Come on.
I agree he can be a bit too stuck up, but he's still a huge inspiration.
If he wasn't who he is, Melvins wouldn't be Melvins, so that's a really silly thing to say.
One has to be stubborn to get to certain things in life.
I don't see anything wrong with aspiring to not to take shit from anyone, work hard, and learn on others' mistakes.
That's all true but it can get a bit much with Buzz sometimes. I understand that mindset of his is in large part due to the band's early days when they were rejected by their local scene and they especially Buzz developed a steely resolve in that they 'knew' they were right and everyone else (their scene) was wrong. There's also a lot of a punk DIY mentality in there too go out and do what you want fuck the establishment (major record labels etc).
That doggedness and single minded mentality permeates his interviews it's clearly a large part of what drives him and keeps him going but I do think his taking shots at other bands/artists over the years (speaking the truth as he would see it) has also hurt them and burnt a number of bridges. Not just Dave Grohl Buzz had a falling out with Patton at one point where they didn't speak for a few years despite being on his label then all the bass players they've gone through too.
It's the negativity and/or taking shots at other bands that I've never liked with his interviews. He's not as bad as he used to be with that stuff these days and that's probably age.
Good observations. He's definitely toned it down within the last ten years.
there is a bitterness that lingers I think from Dale and Buzz both. they say "what can I do about negative reviews? nothing! so fuck 'em!" (for example) but then notice how quickly they both go on the defense when someone says their album sucks. moreso with Dale it seems. he seems a little edgy and almost confrontational about it. look what happened here a few years ago. we all almost got banned for having the nerve express an opinion that wasn't "EVERYTHING THEY DO IS GOLD!". and whatever.. I get pissed off when someone critiques my hard work too. they're just one of those bands. either you get it or you don't. they aren't doing anything that is exposing them to new audiences at this point so I'm not even sure why critique is relevant. you and I will eat it up regardless. in fact we'll probably be even more drawn to bad reviews because that kind of what MELVINS are about.
Yep. I remember that period. Who takes over a fan site, and starts deleting comments they don't like? Insanity.
Quote from: bUTTHOLEmAN on June 18, 2018, 10:15:31 AM
Yep. I remember that period. Who takes over a fan site, and starts deleting comments they don't like? Insanity.
Are you guys able to elaborate at all as I have no idea about what you're talking about? Are you implying Dale joined/took over the forum and started deleting any perceived negative comments?
Quote from: Bigval on June 18, 2018, 10:55:36 AM
Are you guys able to elaborate at all as I have no idea about what you're talking about? Are you implying Dale joined/took over the forum and started deleting any perceived negative comments?
As far as i know, it WASN'T Dale (or Buzz) specifically. It was HAZE who did the deleting. Buzz and Dale just read the comments and decided to get HAZE in to the wield the banhammer. Also apparently discussions were had on whether to remove the board completely. Im still somewhat surprised they didn't pull the plug in the end.
damn, i might have been banned by Dale? :shock:
Quote from: black stallion on June 18, 2018, 12:49:18 PM
damn, i might have been banned by Dale? :shock:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
a badge of honor to be sure.
Quote from: ))))(((( on June 18, 2018, 11:11:44 AM
Quote from: Bigval on June 18, 2018, 10:55:36 AM
Are you guys able to elaborate at all as I have no idea about what you're talking about? Are you implying Dale joined/took over the forum and started deleting any perceived negative comments?
As far as i know, it WASN'T Dale (or Buzz) specifically. It was HAZE who did the deleting. Buzz and Dale just read the comments and decided to get HAZE in to the wield the banhammer. Also apparently discussions were had on whether to remove the board completely. Im still somewhat surprised they didn't pull the plug in the end.
Damn that's pretty crook. Nothing worse than overly sensitive 'rock stars' it's unedifying. On Blabbermouth Sebastian Bach who used to be the singer in Skid Row would sometimes appear in the comments and start challenging posters to fist fights. Just so pathetic. Difference being on BB they're making fun of them on here a Melvins fan forum I highly doubt people were paying out Buzz or Dale. Not good not good at all.
In the the mid-late 90's I used to be a big fan of Silverchair and maybe 5-6 years ago after they had 'gone on hiatus' for a laugh I joined the band's official forum only 1-2 guys on there mainly just 5-6 diehard fangirls and if you ever posted anything that didn't show the band's members in a positive light like news articles of the guys getting up to trouble after big nights on the town they would all jump on you.
Daniel the singer/guitarist shut down the forum in late 2014 about a week later he was in the news having to go to court for a drink driving charge and then a few months after that he finally released his solo album he had been working on for 8 years. Clearly didn't want any negative PR effecting the big release we can't have that no no. Piss weak.
Quote from: ))))(((( on June 18, 2018, 11:11:44 AM
As far as i know, it WASN'T Dale (or Buzz) specifically. It was HAZE who did the deleting. Buzz and Dale just read the comments and decided to get HAZE in to the wield the banhammer. Also apparently discussions were had on whether to remove the board completely. Im still somewhat surprised they didn't pull the plug in the end.
What year was that? I come here since 2003 and I dont recall that period at all.
Quote from: Pringles on June 21, 2018, 11:19:13 PM
Quote from: ))))(((( on June 18, 2018, 11:11:44 AM
As far as i know, it WASN'T Dale (or Buzz) specifically. It was HAZE who did the deleting. Buzz and Dale just read the comments and decided to get HAZE in to the wield the banhammer. Also apparently discussions were had on whether to remove the board completely. Im still somewhat surprised they didn't pull the plug in the end.
What year was that? I come here since 2003 and I dont recall that period at all.
2012. It was right at the time when 'The War On Wisdom' was previewed prior to The Bulls & The Bees EP. That was the song that garnered a bit of dislike here and kicked off proceedings.
Quote from: ))))(((( on June 22, 2018, 03:16:12 AM
2012. It was right at the time when 'The War On Wisdom' was previewed prior to The Bulls & The Bees EP. That was the song that garnered a bit of dislike here and kicked off proceedings.
I hated the song when the video came out and now I like it a lot. I like the rest of Bulls & The Bees better tho.
lmao @ haze being the hired gun for the Melvins.
Quote from: bUTTHOLEmAN on June 22, 2018, 10:30:19 AM
Nah, Haze didn't like some of the posts and just deleted them.
Remember, it wasn't just posts that got deleted there for a while. Perhaps someone else was involved also but Haze definitely "removed" a few people here. Temporarily as it was of course.
Has any one else not received their purchases from the Leona Gallery show? Asking for the Psychology teacher.
Quote from: GrimReaper on June 22, 2018, 01:02:09 PM
Has any one else not received their purchases from the Leona Gallery show? Asking for the Psychology teacher.
You should have it by now.
Quote from: glen on June 18, 2018, 09:59:08 AM
Quote from: bUTTHOLEmAN on June 17, 2018, 01:16:37 PM
Quote from: Bigval on June 17, 2018, 02:42:30 AM
Quote from: Fureon Nectarmoon on June 16, 2018, 03:22:59 PM
Also, being a Melvins fan in spite of Buzz? Come on.
I agree he can be a bit too stuck up, but he's still a huge inspiration.
If he wasn't who he is, Melvins wouldn't be Melvins, so that's a really silly thing to say.
One has to be stubborn to get to certain things in life.
I don't see anything wrong with aspiring to not to take shit from anyone, work hard, and learn on others' mistakes.
That's all true but it can get a bit much with Buzz sometimes. I understand that mindset of his is in large part due to the band's early days when they were rejected by their local scene and they especially Buzz developed a steely resolve in that they 'knew' they were right and everyone else (their scene) was wrong. There's also a lot of a punk DIY mentality in there too go out and do what you want fuck the establishment (major record labels etc).
That doggedness and single minded mentality permeates his interviews it's clearly a large part of what drives him and keeps him going but I do think his taking shots at other bands/artists over the years (speaking the truth as he would see it) has also hurt them and burnt a number of bridges. Not just Dave Grohl Buzz had a falling out with Patton at one point where they didn't speak for a few years despite being on his label then all the bass players they've gone through too.
It's the negativity and/or taking shots at other bands that I've never liked with his interviews. He's not as bad as he used to be with that stuff these days and that's probably age.
Good observations. He's definitely toned it down within the last ten years.
there is a bitterness that lingers I think from Dale and Buzz both. they say "what can I do about negative reviews? nothing! so fuck 'em!" (for example) but then notice how quickly they both go on the defense when someone says their album sucks. moreso with Dale it seems. he seems a little edgy and almost confrontational about it. look what happened here a few years ago. we all almost got banned for having the nerve express an opinion that wasn't "EVERYTHING THEY DO IS GOLD!". and whatever.. I get pissed off when someone critiques my hard work too. they're just one of those bands. either you get it or you don't. they aren't doing anything that is exposing them to new audiences at this point so I'm not even sure why critique is relevant. you and I will eat it up regardless. in fact we'll probably be even more drawn to bad reviews because that kind of what MELVINS are about.
Good observations. For how little they claim to care, they sure seem to get hung up on certain things; like how it seemed like Buzz was bringing up the KISS or Metallica fan controversies seemingly every interview for a while to defend his positions while also talking about how nobody should defend their positions.
Also agree about the bashing other artists thing. Always thought it was bizarre how for years he seemed to abruptly start complaining about Marilyn Manson in every other interview and claiming he sucks because he apologized for ripping up a bible in the 90s (even though that never happened and he's gone on ripping up bibles even today)
Was unaware of the band-enforced board censorship; as silly as I think some of the complaints here can be at times, that's just an objectively uncool move.
Everyone straight up ignored my post... ._.
(The last one on page 1)
I liked the last line of your post. It reminded me of what I did in my 20s. There were a few people around that it just felt better to ignore rather than to wonder why I didn't get on with them (friends of friends, etc). Never looked back.
Quote from: Fureon Nectarmoon on June 17, 2018, 11:38:24 AM
The thing is, brilliant songs like You've Never Been Right, or The Fool, The Meddling Idiot come from the same emotional source as what we're talking about.
It's crucial. If it wasn't there, the Melvins' songs just wouldn't sound the way they are.
Totally agree. One of my favorites is "Let It All Be" which sounds like it should be a zen statement, but it really seems to be a direct takedown of a fellow music professional. I grew up in a house with no empathy, where tough love and stoicism were the virtues that hid stubbornness and defensiveness. I had to work through all that as an adult to become someone worth being around. But when I hear the cold condescension and righteousness in some Melvins songs and in Buzz's persona, it does click with something that I'm not allowed to let out in polite conversation. I don't need a mosh pit or a call to rebellion. But a bitter, cryptic missive wrapped in tricky riffs is a thrill I can only get from the Melvins.
Quote from: Fureon Nectarmoon on July 04, 2018, 10:10:57 AM
Everyone straight up ignored my post... ._.
(The last one on page 1)
Notice me Senpai! :lol:
If they don't like critics or critiques, then explain how music magazines get advanced copies of their albums?
Because people need to care at least a little bit in order to spend as much time as Buzz does talking about just how much they don't care
Quote from: PepsiMike on July 05, 2018, 01:33:38 PM
Quote from: Fureon Nectarmoon on July 04, 2018, 10:10:57 AM
Everyone straight up ignored my post... ._.
(The last one on page 1)
Notice me Senpai! :lol:
Yeah Pretty much :lol:
Quote from: amazonAMAZON on July 04, 2018, 05:25:26 PM
Quote from: Fureon Nectarmoon on June 17, 2018, 11:38:24 AM
The thing is, brilliant songs like You've Never Been Right, or The Fool, The Meddling Idiot come from the same emotional source as what we're talking about.
It's crucial. If it wasn't there, the Melvins' songs just wouldn't sound the way they are.
Totally agree. One of my favorites is "Let It All Be" which sounds like it should be a zen statement, but it really seems to be a direct takedown of a fellow music professional. I grew up in a house with no empathy, where tough love and stoicism were the virtues that hid stubbornness and defensiveness. I had to work through all that as an adult to become someone worth being around. But when I hear the cold condescension and righteousness in some Melvins songs and in Buzz's persona, it does click with something that I'm not allowed to let out in polite conversation. I don't need a mosh pit or a call to rebellion. But a bitter, cryptic missive wrapped in tricky riffs is a thrill I can only get from the Melvins.
Yes, exactly! When you know someone's wrong (or straight up
Vile, or a
Maggot) or circumstances are bad, and/or you feel psychotic, but you can't do much about it, that's when these songs really hit the spot. You can find reflection and understanding for these lingering feelings and thoughts that you can't express in a meaningful way. It's like the Melvins do it for you while also supporting you with kickass instrumentation, and you get that needed freedom to say "fuck you" or "fuck this" and feel great about it.
Quote from: jules on July 04, 2018, 12:09:28 PM
I liked the last line of your post. It reminded me of what I did in my 20s. There were a few people around that it just felt better to ignore rather than to wonder why I didn't get on with them (friends of friends, etc). Never looked back.
Uh... well, you just took the addendum and missed the actual point.
My point was it's unreasonable to demonize a person for just one trait or flaw.
It's the worst when people assume that some flaw means there's no good in that person at all, or that EVERYTHING about that person is flawed.
Because it doesn't.
Again – you are not required to like the person, but give credit where credit is due.
Like I said, Buzz wouldn't get to where he is if he wasn't Buzz. Even if he oversteps the boundary sometimes.
Interestingly enough, Kevin Rutmanis kind of opened my mind about this.
I'd give you an example but I'm afraid to drag politics in this. You can probably guess.
But any of his achievements beneficial to the people get swept under the rug and instead he's only judged by the dirt people keep slinging.
Same with Buzz. Some people in the topic said his jabs at other artists discredit him, I don't agree.
It's bad still but it's a part of what allowed him to get to where he is now.
You can't deny the positive side of it just because you don't like the negative.
In other words, try to judge people fairly, taking your negative bias into account.