What do you guys think is the most well produced album?
I say for right now stoner witch, with the maggot a close second...then HAT maybe...
HAT, POTRE.
The drum sound on HAT is terrible. Its got that cardboard box Innagaddadavida drum solo sound. I really like the Bootlicker, but since its not really the signature Melvins sound, I'm going to say Lysol. Bullhead would win if it werent mixed so goddamn low.
OZMA IS HANDS DOWN THE WORST PRODUCED MELVINS ALBUM. 10 songs sounds better than that tinny piece of garbage.
i think if ozma was remastered and re-mixed a bit it would be one of their most crushing albums.
i think STAG has a great quality to it... the drums on themaggot sound worse to me than on H.A.T.
Agreed that Ozma is the worst sounding record ever....I would be first in line to buy the remaster w/ outtakes. I thought that Eggnog was really good at capturing the energy of the Melvins live sound with the feedback. When I listen to it, the hair stands up on the back of my neck.
I always thought that the 'Spit it Out' cover that they did sucked really bad sound wise, but I guess that doesn't qualify as a full length.
That's weird. I've always thought Stoner Witch was possibly the worst-produced of the Melvins records I've heard. But maybe what I'm not liking is what you like about it. I actually have been disappointed by that aspect even though I think it's one of their best albums. To me, Stag or the Ipecac (cause that's the one I have) version of Gluey Porch Treatments sounds the best.
hat and their next album thats coming up
Stag has some fucking soul shattering moments sonically. I really am blown away by the production on many of the songs, but since about a third of the album is home recorded demos I didn't list it as my favorite...
The Bit, Berthas, Captain Pungent, and Tipping The Lion are my four favorites after Lysol. But now that I have heard that the snare on the album is actually a triggered Bonham sample, the drums have started sounding really stilted to me.
Quote from: lord of heavinessi think if ozma was remastered and re-mixed a bit it would be one of their most crushing albums.
:arrow: :arrow: definitely. i happen to love ozma a good deal
Quote from: blipntimea triggered bonham sample
i've heard this too about stag. it isn't for the whole album is it? if so, when is it activated and when isn't it? like for a snare roll for instance, is it just the sample triggered really quickly in succession? seems doubtful.
maybe it was just for one or two songs that called for it? :-k
Heh...funny this should come up now, as I'm listening to Ozma again for the first time in a long while...
I seriously doubt that even a remastering job could save it, though. I mean, the bass sound is all tin and no low-end, the drums sound flat and, actually, fuck it, the whole thing is so flat and sterile...methinks a re-record job'd be good on it.
As for the best? Hmm...off the top of my head, I think all the Atlantic albums or possibly HAT do it. If i had to pick one release, I'd say Stag as that sounds pretty full and rich. While I dig Lysol's low-end there's something nagging at me which I can't quite pin down. And Bullhead would've sounded better if it hadn't been mixed down to half-volume...
He triggered the Bonham snare for lysol not stag vinney.
Hat has go an incredible presence :)
never breath what you cant see also has pretty decent sound.
pigs is devestating :D
goggles
the production on this track twists my head
stag wins in my opinion
as much as i dig stoner witch and bullhead, i dont like the production, but ive gotten over it, both albums took awhile for me to get into because of the production
as crap as the production is on ozma theres something about it that sounds so raw, bedroom and somewhat powerful, i love that shit!!!
i fell in love with the melvins after hearing ozma
"ever since my accident.."
Gotta go with Stag, then maybe HAT/POTRE/Eggnog
Stag, Hostile Ambient Takeover, Pigs Of The Roman Empire
yeah, Stag of course :D
Stag. The Trilogy sound is horrible in my opinion. I think Lysol is the best example of how the drums should be recorded.
Quote from: Reverend EbeneezerWhile I dig Lysol's low-end there's something nagging at me which I can't quite pin down.
i think it's the feeling that there's something missing. i feel that way about lysol. it's a good one, not one of my favorites, but it is just seriously lacking an element. something about the higher end is just not there
i love the ozma mix hehe, it took me a while to get used to it but it grew on me. i love that sterile sound
the lysol mix kind of bothers me, i got some kickass speakers over here with lots of detail and when i sit in the area where the sound of the 2 speakers collide the bass is WAY too loud, if i go sit somewhere else it sounds excellent tho. lysol is awesome
all the lysol fans should check out teeth of lions rule the divine's album 'rampton' it has a very lysollish feel to it
Quote from: ziumi love the ozma mix hehe, it took me a while to get used to it but it grew on me. i love that sterile sound
the lysol mix kind of bothers me, i got some kickass speakers over here with lots of detail and when i sit in the area where the sound of the 2 speakers collide the bass is WAY too loud, if i go sit somewhere else it sounds excellent tho. lysol is awesome
all the lysol fans should check out teeth of lions rule the divine's album 'rampton' it has a very lysollish feel to it
you can hear the minutemen influence on ozma, and I think thats what they tried to do with the sound (tight clean and thin)
even Lorax thought the bass sounded too tinny.
the melvins has also later said that they dont like it that much anymore.
stoner witch is one of the best-sounding rock albums i've ever heard.
Honky does it for me. It sounds so massive... on the softer parts it sounds like i'm standing in some huge empty space with the music coming from miles away.
joe baressi is one of the best engineers around. the sonic massiveness of stoner witch, stag, all of honky, and mark d's the silent treatment are his doing. as well as many other great albums that i can't think of at the moment. he says he prides himself on his guitar sounds, but the heaviness/weight of the drum tracks done on his watch are awesome (see the kick drum on the silent treatment, mainly borehole). he sometimes uses a yamaha ns10m woofer as a microphone. any of you recording buffs out there use this technique?
depends on what you mean by best production. the production and mixing for the maggot is bad according to normal standards, but I like it for a few reasons. it doesn't sound like anything else i've heard, and the low end seems to have a lot of midbass more than sub (at least that i can remember from playing it on my car stereo when i had a pair of subs). I didn't like it at first, but I think that taste in production is just as subjective as taste in music. (except if you're talking about ozma, OZMA SOUNDS LIKE CRAP)
1. Stag
2. Honky
3. POTRE
Stag has it all - big budget sheen, corrosive noise, muted smoothness all the way to general 4-track nastiness. Honky's cut from similar cloth but breathes very differently. POTRE's sonic palette makes the Melvins interesting again.
Quote from: grachanPOTRE's sonic palette makes the Melvins interesting again.
funny, it made them uninteresting, to me. they were already plenty interesting before they got douchebag mcgee on board to make funny horror-movie noises. ooh, a clanging bell! wow!
zzz worst.
stag and honky, however? genius at work!
Quote from: benton nettyQuote from: grachanPOTRE's sonic palette makes the Melvins interesting again.
funny, it made them uninteresting, to me. they were already plenty interesting before they got douchebag mcgee on board to make funny horror-movie noises. ooh, a clanging bell! wow!
zzz worst.
stag and honky, however? genius at work!
You can go back to bed now.
Stag
But Ozma with a new production could be the best melvins album ever.
I think the closest Ozma will get to perfection is playing Ozma at the same time as the Colossus of Destiny and cutting out the bass on COD. If they could rerecord the album with that in mind, I would jump out of a car in anticipation.
Okay best produced album---
Listen to Your Choice Live, and then listen to Bullhead. The sound is almost identical...so despite Bullhead being a 16 track recording, it really captures how the Melvins sounded at that point in their career. Its also their most consistent album start to finish. And its short! Unlike their preceding two releases, it doesnt bludgeon you to death with Melvins style annoying. There are a lot of dynamics at play, and alongside the Melvins breaking new ground it also is a lot easier to listen to than their really early stuff.
It just needs to be louder. Of course if it were recorded and released now it would probably be compressed to hell and wouldnt have near the feeling of largeness and space it has.
Hey, I hear you on Bullhead. It's one of my favourite Melvins releases. Truth be told, I don't like Gluey or Ozma anywhere near as I like Bullhead/Eggnog/Lysol, or the Atlantic records. The songwriting's better, but you never know...I mean, the version of Boris on Neither Here... was nicely remastered and so much louder...
Pigs of the Roman Empire, Stag, Hositle Ambient Takeover. in that order
POTRE just has so many subtleties (sp?) with the production, i love that. the sound on track 5 alone. what the fuck though, that whole album is genious.
Stag- like someone said earlier best of all worlds
H.A.T. - i'm a big fan of underproduced.
the topics qustion is kind of vague...do you mean mood or sound quality?
I dont think everybody here knows the difference.
Well good production to me is using the mics, control board, and overall sound in new and different ways. Which is not what everybody thinks of as good production... I can't believe only one person here has mentioned stoner witch, I agree with Stag being the other favorite. On Stag and Stoner Witch the band alone sounds amazing, they got a flavor of that major label production but yet very tasteful and dialed in to the "melvins" sound. I think the last track on SW "Lividity" is a great example of the style used on SW. Or "shevil". This is the first album the melvins used synthesizers and weird sounds, and tried different things in the studio to help songs that could've been just regular rock songs. If you have the singles 1-12 you can hear the outtakes or single tracks they used for a couple tracks and its stuff that you would not of thought was even used but then you go and listen to SW its there... I could go on but I still think SW wins, you guys got me thinking about Stag now! And I love the sound of the drums on HAT! I like it dirty.... melvins dirty.....cardboard...
yup.
I think stoner with has good qualities, but...hmmm.
I sort of think stag is better , but i sort of think both of those records
fit together, but I think they really utilized what they could do.
but the drumsound on stoner witch has a really good and full sound.
but I like Hat more because it has more character.
the mood is equally important when it comes to the producing.
listen to the good butthole surfers records, they sound better than the ones they recorded with better "sound".
Quote from: rhett E rockPOTRE just has so many subtleties (sp?) with the production, i love that. the sound on track 5 alone. what the fuck though, that whole album is genious.
not sure that a person who can't spell "genius" should be allowed to deem anything that word.
ha. burn.
Quote from: Joe DeutromYou can go back to bed now.
your mom kicked me out -- she said she needed to rest her asshole for a while. :(
it's fit for a king! kind of you to ask, my pet. how? how?? how? yes i do, thanks and i. your
Quote from: benton nettyQuote from: Joe DeutromYou can go back to bed now.
your mom kicked me out -- she said she needed to rest her asshole for a while. :(
Don't flatter yourself peewee.
(http://www.scripting.com/images/2001/12/05/peeWeePrisoner.jpg)
how'd you know?
You're Pee Wee Herman. :!:
i'm so glad that my browser has a spellcheck built right in.....
sjbnvwowe <---"the red line lets me know i'm wrong."
everybody gets the general idea. maybe i'll ask for a dictionary or thesaurus for my birthday.
yea, i got the general idea. i'm not going to be the first (or last, or ever) to complain about someone adding a letter in a word where it doesn't belong, unless i can't understand it and i have a desire to.
plenty of times around here people communicate in the most unintelligible way, but i don't say anything because i don't give a shit about what they are trying to get across.
Quote from: lord of heavinessi think if ozma was remastered and re-mixed a bit it would be one of their most crushing albums.
yeah. it just needs to be louder and thicker. i mean, the music itself is great, but the tinniness takes away some of the effect. and the vocals are a little "buried"
Quote from: DudbeanQuote from: benton nettyQuote from: rhett E rockPOTRE just has so many subtleties (sp?) with the production, i love that. the sound on track 5 alone. what the fuck though, that whole album is genious.
not sure that a person who can't spell "genius" should be allowed to deem anything that word.
ha. burn.
Not sure that a person who incorrectly uses "deem" should be allowed to burn somone for an honest spelling mistake, especially considering you forgot a word in your sentence.
Ha. Slight charring effect.
not to nitpick, but "deem" means "regard as" or "to consider," so if you mean that i forgot the "as," you're wrong. because it's included in the word. and, i replaced the word "genius" with the words "that word."
"deem" is a better choice than "call," i think. because it has to do with having an opinion.
but, bottom line? it's comedy. like if i was to say you were "smarte." it's incongruous. have a laugh and take the cork out of your butt, ponch!
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/020530902X/qid=1124336248/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-3181735-9576055
shaaaa whatever, how about COLOSSUS OF DESTINY. :idea:
Quote from: DudbeanQuote from: benton nettyQuote from: DudbeanQuote from: benton nettyQuote from: rhett E rockPOTRE just has so many subtleties (sp?) with the production, i love that. the sound on track 5 alone. what the fuck though, that whole album is genious.
not sure that a person who can't spell "genius" should be allowed to deem anything that word.
ha. burn.
Not sure that a person who incorrectly uses "deem" should be allowed to burn somone for an honest spelling mistake, especially considering you forgot a word in your sentence.
Ha. Slight charring effect.
not to nitpick, but "deem" means "regard as" or "to consider," so if you mean that i forgot the "as," you're wrong. because it's included in the word. and, i replaced the word "genius" with the words "that word."
"deem" is a better choice than "call," i think. because it has to do with having an opinion.
but, bottom line? it's comedy. like if i was to say you were "smarte." it's incongruous. have a laugh and take the cork out of your butt, ponch!
The cork is nowhere near my shit exit, gonch. Even though your original post had no comedy in it, I knew you weren't being totally serious with your criticism. That's why I wrote "Ha. Slight charring effect" after you wrote "ha. burn". I was trying to be lighthearted. I would've written "You're a fucking hypocrite" if I had been serious, but I wasn't. And I'm still not - I'm just having fun typing things on a bulletin board.
yae mna i mispel wrods wong her al the time .
Quote from: Cranial Bifidashaaaa whatever, how about COLOSSUS OF DESTINY. :idea:
it's definitely not the best produced melvins album. it's unproduced.
Quote from: benton nettyQuote from: Cranial Bifidashaaaa whatever, how about COLOSSUS OF DESTINY. :idea:
it's definitely not the best produced melvins album. it's unproduced.
something about this comment just sort of annoys me.
I didn't want to look at all the previous pages, so I'm gonna say Stoner Witch, I like the way the drums clip-it's just right. Dale=Overlord of Drums.
I find all Melvins albums to be somewhat lacking in good production. HAT is probably at the top though. There are some albums that you can just pop in and not have to adjust the eq on your stereo at all to get an awesome sound. That to me is a sign of an album that has been produced very well. Steve Albini does this every time.
Quote from: Vcavalloyea, i got the general idea. i'm not going to be the first (or last, or ever) to complain about someone adding a letter in a word where it doesn't belong, unless i can't understand it and i have a desire to.
plenty of times around here people communicate in the most unintelligible way, but i don't say anything because i don't give a shit about what they are trying to get across.
hey, take it easy man....they're real people too. :(
:lol:
Quote from: thegrumpylil'hermithey, take it easy man....they're real people too. :(
...
:lol:
i know, i wasn't trying to be mean. i was saying i forgive grammar and spelling. it doesn't bother me.
when it gets too atrocious i just don't bother with the whole post. indeed, they are real people, i'm not targeting anyone.
:toke:
i was listening to OZMA today...
i think it is as close to a perfect album in that style as the melvins could have gotten. the songwriting is so creative and the way the vocals and drums interplay really keeps one on ones toes.
i find that i really enjoy the production...i can't see why everyone dislikes it so. i think it's quite crushing, and not at all tinny. maybe you guys just have the volume too low? ozma is all drums to these ears, and that's a positive mark in V.C.'s book. i hardly find the vocals buried, also..they seem quite apparent to me (maybe not on top of the mix, but definitely in a niche of their own in the sound.) LOVE IT
top 10 favorite albums material
Quote from: thegrumpylil'hermitQuote from: Vcavalloyea, i got the general idea. i'm not going to be the first (or last, or ever) to complain about someone adding a letter in a word where it doesn't belong, unless i can't understand it and i have a desire to.
plenty of times around here people communicate in the most unintelligible way, but i don't say anything because i don't give a shit about what they are trying to get across.
hey, take it easy man....they're real people too. :(
:lol:
Here's some more real peepholes!
(http://short-stories.weblog.com.pt/arquivo/PEEPHOLE.jpg)
(http://www.allen-vanguard.com/images/products/su0010.jpg)
Quote from: Vcavalloi was listening to OZMA today...
i think it is as close to a perfect album in that style as the melvins could have gotten. the songwriting is so creative and the way the vocals and drums interplay really keeps one on ones toes.
i find that i really enjoy the production...i can't see why everyone dislikes it so. i think it's quite crushing, and not at all tinny. maybe you guys just have the volume too low? ozma is all drums to these ears, and that's a positive mark in V.C.'s book. i hardly find the vocals buried, also..they seem quite apparent to me (maybe not on top of the mix, but definitely in a niche of their own in the sound.) LOVE IT
top 10 favorite albums material
I like the songwriting very much.
more focused than gluey, but still weird and quirkey :)
yea, definitely more focused than gluey. i think the production suits the feel of the writing very well. i wouldn't want it produced like...GPT for example. it would remove the attention from the song's directions where it belongs. there is plenty of time to hide sub-par writing with weight, i don't need it on ozma.
i would switch my GPT tattoo for an Ozma tattoo. i don't regret it, but if the two were interchangeable i'd be ok.
Quote from: Vcavalloi would switch my GPT tattoo for an Ozma tattoo. i don't regret it, but if the two were interchangeable i'd be ok.
you have two arms, why not get ozma on the other?
I hate the production on Bullhead. I just got it a few days ago and I was expecting to crush me, but it just doesn't. When I put it in after any other album, I have to turn the volume way up to even hear it. I'm not exactly sure what it is, but something sucks the life out of the music. If this album was produced better it would just blow me away.
Sometimes the music just isnt enough for some people. When I first listened to bullhead 10 years ago I didn't even know what production was, and that album KILLED me!
i gave it more thought. Eggnog and Stag, hands down.
Stoner Witch and Stag
Quote from: luciano darkage on August 15, 2005, 07:55:37 AM
goggles
the production on this track twists my head
stag wins in my opinion
as much as i dig stoner witch and bullhead, i dont like the production, but ive gotten over it, both albums took awhile for me to get into because of the production
as crap as the production is on ozma theres something about it that sounds so raw, bedroom and somewhat powerful, i love that shit!!!
i fell in love with the melvins after hearing ozma
"ever since my accident.."
ha
that's me.
thought i had an account before this one.
luciano :lol: :lol: :lol:
:D when i used to play beats and scratch records around town, i used to go by a few different names. that was one of them.
Quote from: black stallion on October 26, 2011, 07:23:03 AM
Quote from: dijk cheese on October 26, 2011, 07:21:24 AM
that was one of them.
and i love it!
:lol: cheers.
i think the best name i came up with was...
dirty rich and the lonely housewives.
has this gone off topic?
After Reading the first page of posts I've come to the realization that NOBODY here so far has any Idea what they are talking about.
and by the way...the Drum sound on HAT Is none of your goddamn business! Try POTRE, the SAME drum sound to begin with, and they've done a lot more with it AFTERWARDS in post-recording production with lot's of Delay's and echo, but essentially they had to get a totally DRY room sound before playing with FX.
if you had any idea of classic 70's sounding music, maybe you could appreciate a producer who doesn't rely on 300 pounds of signal processing modules. and I really don't understand why you think all producers understand what your band needs and wants in ways of album dynamics, it's hard enough to get along with your own band members PERIOD!
The Drums were MEANT to be Dry and crisp for HAT, imagine the drum sound of stoner witch with HAT...I can't see it working...that album has 70's tape echo on the guitar, it doesn't need production to be rough sounding!
Stoner witch sounds a lot like corrosion of conformity's deliverance album to me, and you have to have that HUGE big BOOMING sound, listen to the vocals, they sound like they've put a 10,000 dollar mike on Buzz's vocals..like a Telefunken U47 or a Neauman or AKG mic, not every studio has that kind of gear. The melvins already had the best production POSSIBLE, and they've had NO production...it all STILL ROCKS...what the fuck!
anyway I'm through wasting my time, if Buzz can see the point to do an album under 25 grand, why can't you?
you guys are retarded.
Maybe do a little research into the "loudness war" in your spare time.
realize why music 25 years ago doesn't appear to go as loud as what's available in todays market...
Listen to OZMA on cassette, it sounds quiet compared the the CD mastering job...but It's warm and REAL, damnation!!!
You got a volume knob doncha?
why do you need something to have the living SHIT compressed out of it to a flat wall of sound?
you have dynamics in song writing and sound, so why not in recordings?
maybe check your ears...then check your brains and big mouths too!
as far as your opinions and production is concerned, it's all subjectional.
do you even know what a production IS?
and what a producer DOES?
and why a band like the melvins has gone through like 5 record labels?
cuz were talking about a LOT of subjectionality here.
be thankfull for all and any!
If you are like me you can take what you can get and shut the hell up!
your posts are always short and concise Dumpy
Quote from: black stallion on October 28, 2011, 10:50:16 AM
your posts are always short and concise Dumpy
He has that stream of consciousness thing going on.
Either "10 Songs" or the solo EPs (depending on my mood). I'm with Dumpster D on this one, over-compression fucking sucks and makes otherwise good records sound boring.
Quote from: )))((( on October 28, 2011, 11:02:59 AM
Quote from: black stallion on October 28, 2011, 10:50:16 AM
your posts are always short and concise Dumpy
He has that stream of consciousness thing going on. STREAM!!
more like the jizz of consciousness. he just creamed the board.
Eggnog
PRICK
Electroretard
Stag/Honky/Stoner Witch
Stag
10 songs. :P
honestly.
Dunno why nobody mentioned this, but I thought the production on A Senile Animal, Nude With Boots, Bride Screamed Murder, and Freak Puke was damn good. Think about it. It doesn't give you a headache. Everything is mixed pretty well. You can hear the bass just fine. The drums, although there are 2 drummers for ASA, NWB, and TBSM, are NOT too over-powering, and the guitars and vocal harmonies are all mixed well. In my opinion, the production is great and is NOT over-compressed. There are no loud-ness wars going on with these 4 albums...
Any thoughts?
Bootlicker by a friggin country mile. Listen to Let It All Be and it becomes clear immediately that up until that point (and since) it is the best production.
I wonder if the fact that Bootlicker had no amps involved (from what I've heard) helped in the production quality?
hmm, not sure. although it is almost all clean-tone - the guitars and bass were electric no doubt, but I suppose that's possible only if they were plugged in directly.
Ipecac's Gluey Porch Treatments CD.
Enough said.
Quote from: deatheats on April 11, 2013, 01:44:08 PM
I wonder if the fact that Bootlicker had no amps involved (from what I've heard) helped in the production quality?
It is true, and I'd say yes. Not that I know a lot about engineering, but I would think it'd help a bit.
Quote from: Leroy on April 11, 2013, 08:45:35 AM
Dunno why nobody mentioned this, but I thought the production on A Senile Animal, Nude With Boots, Bride Screamed Murder, and Freak Puke was damn good. Think about it. It doesn't give you a headache. Everything is mixed pretty well. You can hear the bass just fine. The drums, although there are 2 drummers for ASA, NWB, and TBSM, are NOT too over-powering, and the guitars and vocal harmonies are all mixed well. In my opinion, the production is great and is NOT over-compressed. There are no loud-ness wars going on with these 4 albums...
Any thoughts?
I can't weigh in as I think a lot of their albums sound good, but perhaps not nice. Without popping them in again I can't name many names. I think Ozma sounds disappointing while The Maggot doesn't sound very hifi but the sound suits the music. So maybe it is about being a good match.
But anyway I really don't like the sound of NWB. To be fair It is my least favorite album since the Big Business merger (despite having some of my favorite songs somehow). But I often make mix CDs with tracks from various albums to proselytize the band to friends. And when I do I usually throw in a few NWB tracks because I love some of those songs, but the production does sound waaaay too compressed and harsh. Even when back to back with other new tracks from TBSM.
The Smiling Cobra is always a winner for folk who are new to Melvins,
Quote from: Helen83 on April 12, 2013, 03:32:26 PM
The Smiling Cobra is always a winner for folk who are new to Melvins,
yup
Quote from: VaticanShotglass on April 11, 2013, 07:15:55 PM
Quote from: Leroy on April 11, 2013, 08:45:35 AM
Dunno why nobody mentioned this, but I thought the production on A Senile Animal, Nude With Boots, Bride Screamed Murder, and Freak Puke was damn good. Think about it. It doesn't give you a headache. Everything is mixed pretty well. You can hear the bass just fine. The drums, although there are 2 drummers for ASA, NWB, and TBSM, are NOT too over-powering, and the guitars and vocal harmonies are all mixed well. In my opinion, the production is great and is NOT over-compressed. There are no loud-ness wars going on with these 4 albums...
Any thoughts?
But anyway I really don't like the sound of NWB. To be fair It is my least favorite album since the Big Business merger (despite having some of my favorite songs somehow). But I often make mix CDs with tracks from various albums to proselytize the band to friends. And when I do I usually throw in a few NWB tracks because I love some of those songs, but the production does sound waaaay too compressed and harsh. Even when back to back with other new tracks from TBSM.
good point
In all honesty you cant say there is a best or worst produced album, Production itself is always subjectional.
like saying Digital is worse or better than analog recording. The fact that you believe one album is produced better than another shows how much music Marketing Strategies have got you by the balls...
Correct ANSWER;
Neither is superior in any way whatsoever, they BOTH have their pros and Cons in different Areas subjectionally.
As for production, same difference.
Stuff that was produced top of the line for its time can soon sound DATED if you know what I mean.
you have to appreciate the fact that this group has spanned three generations of Production trends and tastes.
all of the music therein is also equally as diverse as the production sound itself.
now put that in your blunt and roll it.
I don't know anything about production and am usually at a loss when people discuss it or the technical aspects of recording. I often don't hear many of the things others identify as problems in the sound either. Perhaps that stuff just doesn't register with me and in a way im glad it doesn't. I love records that somehow maintain a bit of that raw and honest sound of the instruments but also has some clarity to it. A sense of "fullness" to what im hearing. Whatever that really means. Other than some early releases i don't think i have a problem with any Melvins album as regards the production. I like the new stuff and the old and couldn't pick out one.
Yeuup...
most people are confused on the defining principles of a production itself, it seems to be a muddy glass.
its a fine line.
Please allow me to clarify.
Production comes in three main stages;
Pre-production
production
Post production.
Pre-production material is evaluated, conceptualized, budgeted, Hiring and logistical plans are laid.
In production, Material is Recorded or filmed, sometimes Aired Directly on TV for example.
In Postproduction, material Is edited, and mixed into its final form.
In pre-production Creative and business Decisions that will affect the two later stages are carefully worked out. Ergo; as pre-production goes, so goes the rest of the production.
The essential POINT is that any AUDIO SHOULD BE PLANNED BEFORE IT IS PRODUCED. *hint hint*
sometimes a sound designer is hired.
The LARGER the production the greater number of people hired in the sound desighn.
In music, one person may serve as a producer and engineer or several persons may take on the roll of a producer.
Things to discuss the preproduction; Technical planning and creative planning.
There is no set procedure for sound design.
Immerse yourself in the material untill you can relate to it, and evolve from it a sense of the approach that is best to take.
maybe this will give you a better idea of what we have here, which in my humble oppinion
is one BIG ASS MOTHERFUCKER OF A MISCONCEPTION.
So, the who what where when and why and HOW of a sound designer is now going to be raising some better informed Judgment on what a production actually IS in terms of a finished Audible Product.
Music Is a Language.
Lots of good points folks.
Back to the discussion of taste, I've been listening to Freak Puke a lot lately and I really like the final product soundwise. The Bass sounds fantastic, drums too. I initially didn't like the guitar sound, but I do now. I think it suits the overall package. Lots of good sound choices on that album.
Pigs of the Roman Empire.
Just my personal ear but Gluey Porch all the way ... and Eggnog.
I couldn't make a case for what their best produced album is, seeing as Melvins have so much recorded output, each with interesting production techniques being put into use, but I'll say this:
The Atlantic records have the best drum sound of any of their albums. Stoner Witch far and away has the best drums of the bunch. The recordings have such a clean yet aggressive quality to them. The snare alone on Roadbull proves this, IMO. It's got such a crisp and punchy sound that it hits like a fucking gunshot. The kicks throughout the album are pretty beastly as well. Lots of low-end attack on that album, and they're balanced well with the bass. You can really tell they had access to a quality studio on that album.
I've felt with each Big Business album the drum sound has gotten progressively better and that all the problems of recording and mixing with a double drum-set in the picture were totally resolved with The Bulls and the Bees EP.
I really fell in love with the Melvins Lite drum sound just recently, which could largely be attributed to the kit Dale is using for those recordings.
In terms of guitar it's a little harder to pick the best sounding album, but I've always been partial to Gluey Porch Treatment's guitar tone. The guitar is thicker and heavier on that album than almost any of their other recordings. It's pretty obvious that the album was recorded on much cheaper equipment than their more recent work, but I think it definitely adds to the guitar's absolutely vicious (and viscous) tone. Lysol and The Maggot are logical extensions of that tone.
I feel like Buzz's guitar tone has become a little metallic and slightly tinny in recent years, maybe due to the aluminum guitars he started using. I'm not a huge fan his current sound.
The best sounding bass is a tie between The Bootlicker (which almost seems like it was made to show off Kevin's playing) and the Melvins Lite material. It's hard to compete with the sound of a standup bass.
When it comes to additional production techniques, or "sound design" for lack of a better term, it's dead even between H.A.T., Stag, and POTRE. POTRE is obviously the most design-heavy album as a result of Lustmord's contributions and is all the more amazing for it (Safety Third, the title track, and Pink Bat to my ear, are the most seamless combinations of the two artists' aesthetics.) Stag is a little more freewheeling than H.A.T. when it comes to weird audio interludes, often dedicating entire tracks to studio-created noise experiments. H.A.T. instead uses studio techniques to add "flavor" to the songs. Moments of Foaming, Little Judas Chongo, and The Fool, The Meddling Idiot are good examples. However, the best example of using studio trickery to great effect is The Anti-Vermin Seed.
Also, I'd say Stag and H.A.T. make equally good use of vocal doubling.
Alive at the Fucker Club
(a) Senile Animal (.)
They all have good qualities, but none are equal to that of California by Mr. Bungle. The album production just kills.
What's with Buzz's tone these days? I miss the old Gibson sound.
Quote from: Fishheadphil on April 21, 2013, 01:14:07 AM
They all have good qualities, but none are equal to that of California by Mr. Bungle. The album production just kills.
King Tubby's POONS all these cracker ass cracker productions!!!!!
Stoner Witch. Stag. The Maggot just for the sheer sonic devastation of it.
I can't help but feel the production on Stoner Witch and Stag are quite good, however still somewhat bland and typical. There's nothing that screams "Hey this production is pure bomb" but shmeh. Freak Puke certainly has a unique touch to it but I feel the bass should have more volume.
Bootlicker, Stoner witch. Skweetis and roadbull for the win!
I know its not well produced at all and probably recorded on a boombox but I love the lo-fi of making love demos (I'm a lo-fi fan in general). I don't think those songs would sound better well produced.
Quote from: (the) Razor on April 21, 2013, 01:17:28 AM
What's with Buzz's tone these days? I miss the old Gibson sound.
I agree, love the look of the Electric Guitar Company guitars but the Les Paul sound is definitely missed.
Quote from: SquidVicious25 on April 24, 2013, 01:57:03 PM
Quote from: (the) Razor on April 21, 2013, 01:17:28 AM
What's with Buzz's tone these days? I miss the old Gibson sound.
I agree, love the look of the Electric Guitar Company guitars but the Les Paul sound was better
fixed
Hey waitaminute...he didn't type that. What the heck?
^ I'm going to go on record and say it..
I like the EGC Guitar tone BETTER.. I may be in the minority on this one, But I do. I think his current tone is Spectacular.
Yes the LP tone was incredible... I loved it as much as everyone here probably does. But some of the sounds he was getting out of the new setup were blowing my mind the last few times I saw them.
Then again one of my favorite guitar sounds ever is Steve Albini, so I my be a little biased.
You guys are Just comparing apples and Oranges.
what a farce.
Honestly, both are equally good in their own ways.
A vintage Les paul can only work-horse so much before its time to put it into Retirement.
Buzz said every peice of hardware on his custom Les Paul had been Re-Tread including the frets.
I will say it again, Cannibal corpse gets between 5-7 years of Mileage of their Guitars, due to Sweat causing damage. so its amazing the Les paul survived as long as it did under such strenuous Rigors.
Not to mention aluminum Doesnt Rust. 8)
Nah, I don't think we're talking about the actual one guitar here. I mean he could always get one every 5 or 6 years!
I mean this is completely 100% subjective and Buzz can do whatever he wants obviously, but to me, the EGC sounds "thin" and "twangy" and "metallic" but the Gibson sounds warm and full. I think the EGC sounds great with someone like Duane Denison's kind of style, really suits him, but I miss the warm fat tone of the Gibson with Melvins. That's all! Not having a crack at Buzz or the guitar brands but there is a huge difference and it's all opinion
After giving Everybody Love Sausages a few attempts with headphones, I have to say I'm quite impressed with the production on many of those tunes. I still can't get into the more typical punky tunes or the opener track, but hey, It has the perfect balance of Over-production and under-production.
Quote from: Dumpster D on April 27, 2013, 12:16:20 AM
You guys are Just comparing apples and Oranges.
Buzzo has a killer clean tone with the current EGC guitar. maybe he missed a bit of the old fat tone he had with the LP but it's still cool. peace&love :toke:
I think its fair to say Theyve done enough albums and shows with the Les Paul.
Everyone has a Strat or Les paul, Its the missionary position of Rock and Roll.
how many people Can Boast an EGC sound right now. 8)
Quote from: (the) Razor on April 27, 2013, 12:59:18 AM
Nah, I don't think we're talking about the actual one guitar here. I mean he could always get one every 5 or 6 years!
I mean this is completely 100% subjective and Buzz can do whatever he wants obviously, but to me, the EGC sounds "thin" and "twangy" and "metallic" but the Gibson sounds warm and full. I think the EGC sounds great with someone like Duane Denison's kind of style, really suits him, but I miss the warm fat tone of the Gibson with Melvins. That's all! Not having a crack at Buzz or the guitar brands but there is a huge difference and it's all opinion
Have you heard it live?... There is nothing "Thin" about that sound
Quote from: Dumpster D on April 27, 2013, 10:03:09 AM
Everyone has a Strat or Les paul, Its the missionary position of Rock and Roll.
post of the year?
Quote from: )))((( on April 27, 2013, 01:33:00 PM
Quote from: Dumpster D on April 27, 2013, 10:03:09 AM
Everyone has a Strat or Les paul, Its the missionary position of Rock and Roll.
This is probably the Tantric Sex version! :shock:
(http://www.premierguitar.com/education/images/200808_guitartech_1.jpg)
:lol: Looks like something out of Spinal Tap :lol:
I do love Gluey Porch Treatments because of the Really thick guitar sound and the epic drums. But I'm goanna have to go with Bullhead because of the drum sound and buzzs voice. Its not my favourite record but I think its one of the best sounding.
Quote from: solgrohl08 on May 05, 2013, 01:45:17 PM
I do love Gluey Porch Treatments because of the Really thick guitar sound and the epic drums. But I'm goanna have to go with Bullhead because of the drum sound and buzzs voice. Its not my favourite record but I think its one of the best sounding.
good point
Quote from: jonE5 on April 28, 2013, 12:12:40 PM
Quote from: )))((( on April 27, 2013, 01:33:00 PM
Quote from: Dumpster D on April 27, 2013, 10:03:09 AM
Everyone has a Strat or Les paul, Its the missionary position of Rock and Roll.
This is probably the Tantric Sex version! :shock:
(http://www.premierguitar.com/education/images/200808_guitartech_1.jpg)
:lol: Looks like something out of Spinal Tap :lol:
The hippies downtown would love to play this for money.
I really like the sound of Lysol in its entirely, voices, guitars, drums, bass... But... hum... My ears want to go for Hostile Ambient Takeover because of this HUUUUUUUGE and dirty bass sound. And everything.
Quote from: F. W. Furter on May 29, 2013, 07:50:12 AM
I really like the sound of Lysol in its entirely, voices, guitars, drums, bass...
do you know that story about Dale's snare on Lysol and Led Zeppelin?
Quote from: black stallion on May 30, 2013, 01:43:38 PM
Quote from: F. W. Furter on May 29, 2013, 07:50:12 AM
I really like the sound of Lysol in its entirely, voices, guitars, drums, bass...
do you know that story about Dale's snare on Lysol and Led Zeppelin?
Did they actually lift Bonhams snare from a Zeppelin track? If so, which LZ track?
And Did they use it on all of Lysol or just certain tracks?
It sounds like a lie Buzz would say in an interview to just to screw with us uber fans.
Not to doubt Stallion/Dale but what interview contains this info?
About the snare, I found this on http://www.themelvins.net/wiki/index.php?title=Sludge,_Jury_And_Executioner (http://www.themelvins.net/wiki/index.php?title=Sludge,_Jury_And_Executioner) :
QuoteDale: I always had a problem getting my snare drum to sound good. I used this huge marching drum and just sounded like I was hitting a bucket. I asked if we had a copy of Houses Of The Holy by Led Zeppelin. We figured out how to sample and trigger it. So basically my drum sound is John Bonham
Quote from: F. W. Furter on May 31, 2013, 03:37:53 AM
About the snare, I found this on http://www.themelvins.net/wiki/index.php?title=Sludge,_Jury_And_Executioner (http://www.themelvins.net/wiki/index.php?title=Sludge,_Jury_And_Executioner) :
QuoteDale: I always had a problem getting my snare drum to sound good. I used this huge marching drum and just sounded like I was hitting a bucket. I asked if we had a copy of Houses Of The Holy by Led Zeppelin. We figured out how to sample and trigger it. So basically my drum sound is John Bonham
yes,i meant this ^
Haha, what a trick :D
.... Ho ! I realise.. ...I listen to Led Zep while listening Hung Bunny, weird !
Great! Thanks for that!
Prick. No, just kidding! It's Stag. 8)
Pre Tosh: Stag, possibly Bullhead
w/ Tosh: HAT, Pigs, ASA and I always thought Nude With Boots had wonderfully natural feel that is all over the goddamn place at the same time
i like stag
pigs, and the trilogy come to mine
but the way eggnog sounds is close to my heart
-Lysol
-Houdini
-the maggot
-Hostile Ambient Takeover
Ozma,,hands down, best on CD>Album
Hands down (a) Senile Animal...
I DIDN'T REALIZE SO MANY MELVINS FANS WERE DEAF TO SONIC PROPERTIES...
Stoner Witch and Stag are among the best produced albums I own (and that's well into the ten thousands).
There was a time that now has passed. A time when a big five record company could throw $100,000 or more at an album from a "developing artist" and send them to the best studios, hook them up with a killer producer, spare no expense on recording equipment and engineers.
"Stoner Witch" is where the Melvins were able to really nail their heavy sound (especially the first four songs). The stars had aligned. They got through their growing pains in recording Houdini. They were with Gggarth's supervision (his other records from around this time were all also great sounding). As noted elsewhere, the engineer Joe Baressi was on board and he was genius. They had enough budget for two assistant engineers. I wouldn't be surprised if these guys end up doing something ridiculous like holding a $20,000 microphone on an isolated boom mic a precise 7" away from Dale's dirty splash. Or maybe they stood out back and smoked cigarettes. Who knows? But Joe and Gggarth were on board. Also remember Mark D was an experienced recording engineer at this time, too, which may have been relevant. SToner WItch has many of my favorite Melvins bass moments.
On Stoner Witch you also have gems like "June Bug" and "Goose Freight Train" where you get clean tones, lots of air, mood. This record is amazing. Everything is on point. You could listen to this album on repeat for a week straight and your ears would never fatigue. You would catch a new nuance on Sunday.
Stag goes even further, taking basically the same team and letting them get a little freakier with the sonics and techniques. There's some demo-ey experimental stuff on there that goes pretty far out and might hinder repeat listenability. But if you look at the core of the Melvins setlist songs on there ("The Bit," "Bar X," "Skin Horse," Captain Pungent," "Tipping the Lion,'" "The Bloat" and a few others) you'll hear that same kind of excellent heaviness that worked on Stoner Witch and is evident here on even more unconventional material.
I don't have the liner notes in front of me, but the mixing and mastering on these records was ace. You only had a couple in-demand mastering gurus at this time (I want to say Howie Weinberg, Grundman, Ludwig, Tom Baker, and a few more) and if they weren't on this record, then whoever did master it was at least competent enough to not screw anything up (which is the real danger of good mastering). I want to say Tom Baker did Stag but I could be wrong.
Honky seemed to have much of the same approach, but probably cut some corners due to budget. The sound is still excellent.
I think (A) Senile Animal is the best sounding record they did after that, although as mentioned elsewhere Pigs of the Roman Empire has the band sounding supreme. We'll leave the soundscapes out of this discussion as it's not really relevant to comparing albums.
I've heard Buzz on numerous occasions defending against blanket attacks on the major label system. There is/was a lot wrong with it, but that system allowed the band to make three amazing albums with mostly their own creative freedom. Buzz has found various outlets to explain what didn't work about the relationship with Atlantic (bad touring demands, music video hassles, marketing budgets and possibly misrepresentation) but I've never heard him express regrets about the recording/mixing/final product of those three records especially Stoner Witch and Stag.
I also want to say that Bulls & Bees sounded great (listening to the CD). Tres Cabrones sounds pretty awesome in most places. Sausages is all over the place (the Melvins Lite songs and the Bowie song are the ones I really dig sonically). Bride Screamed sounds great.
In reference to sample replacement on snare... this is so common among sound engineers you would be amazed. Probably 80% of rock albums in the past two decades have used this. People commonly pull Bonham or Grohl or a few other butt naked snare sounds from exceptional recording sessions. I worked with a producer who had a coveted collection of them. If you got rid of all records that had a sample beefing up the snare, you'd probably lose half your favorite records.
Great stuff, aA! 8) I can't find any info on mastering in the CD packaging for Stoner Witch. On Stag, it says:mastered at precision mastering by Stephen Marcussen & Ron Boustead. :) :nerd:
Lots of great insight, Amazon.
I dont mind the Triggered snare thing, Its more goof-proof of course, saved Lysol on a quick fix, cutting corners..Working smart not hard seems to be the new trend now at any rate, everything Is digital now anyway...So the 90s was the real Analog-digital Transitonary phase where Analog sound was at its peak best, and digital was still wearing diapers.
Meshuggah Blended a nice Trigger sound with the Drum mics on Koloss and I think that gives the best of both worlds on a record.
But Drum Triggering in heavy metal has been standardized and crossed right on over into post and pop punk all too easy.
it was inevitable. too many morons in the control booths.
Quote from: jonE5 on April 27, 2013, 11:42:14 AM
Quote from: (the) Razor on April 27, 2013, 12:59:18 AM
Nah, I don't think we're talking about the actual one guitar here. I mean he could always get one every 5 or 6 years!
I mean this is completely 100% subjective and Buzz can do whatever he wants obviously, but to me, the EGC sounds "thin" and "twangy" and "metallic" but the Gibson sounds warm and full. I think the EGC sounds great with someone like Duane Denison's kind of style, really suits him, but I miss the warm fat tone of the Gibson with Melvins. That's all! Not having a crack at Buzz or the guitar brands but there is a huge difference and it's all opinion
Have you heard it live?... There is nothing "Thin" about that sound
Didn't see this post a year ago but got an email today. So may as well.....
I've seen Melvins and the EGC twice, but live it generally doesn't matter what gear the band uses in a gig. Oranges, Marshalls - distortion usually ends up sounding the same live at 100 decibels! I spend most of the time listening to their records, which is where the EGC does sound different.
Just listen to Tres Cabrones (American Cow, Psychedelic Haze) then compare back to the 1983 records and Les Paul days. The "Thin" or "Tinny" sound of the EGC is not bad, but it sounds very different and takes some getting used to. Buzz sounds like he plays a solid state amp these days even.
GREAT POST - Amazon! I think Stoner Witch is also the best sounding and mixed 'rock' album I've ever heard sonically.
Quote from: amazonAMAZON on May 09, 2014, 04:17:45 PM
I DIDN'T REALIZE SO MANY MELVINS FANS WERE DEAF TO SONIC PROPERTIES...
Stoner Witch and Stag are among the best produced albums I own (and that's well into the ten thousands).
There was a time that now has passed. A time when a big five record company could throw $100,000 or more at an album from a "developing artist" and send them to the best studios, hook them up with a killer producer, spare no expense on recording equipment and engineers.
"Stoner Witch" is where the Melvins were able to really nail their heavy sound (especially the first four songs). The stars had aligned. They got through their growing pains in recording Houdini. They were with Gggarth's supervision (his other records from around this time were all also great sounding). As noted elsewhere, the engineer Joe Baressi was on board and he was genius. They had enough budget for two assistant engineers. I wouldn't be surprised if these guys end up doing something ridiculous like holding a $20,000 microphone on an isolated boom mic a precise 7" away from Dale's dirty splash. Or maybe they stood out back and smoked cigarettes. Who knows? But Joe and Gggarth were on board. Also remember Mark D was an experienced recording engineer at this time, too, which may have been relevant. SToner WItch has many of my favorite Melvins bass moments.
On Stoner Witch you also have gems like "June Bug" and "Goose Freight Train" where you get clean tones, lots of air, mood. This record is amazing. Everything is on point. You could listen to this album on repeat for a week straight and your ears would never fatigue. You would catch a new nuance on Sunday.
Stag goes even further, taking basically the same team and letting them get a little freakier with the sonics and techniques. There's some demo-ey experimental stuff on there that goes pretty far out and might hinder repeat listenability. But if you look at the core of the Melvins setlist songs on there ("The Bit," "Bar X," "Skin Horse," Captain Pungent," "Tipping the Lion,'" "The Bloat" and a few others) you'll hear that same kind of excellent heaviness that worked on Stoner Witch and is evident here on even more unconventional material.
I don't have the liner notes in front of me, but the mixing and mastering on these records was ace. You only had a couple in-demand mastering gurus at this time (I want to say Howie Weinberg, Grundman, Ludwig, Tom Baker, and a few more) and if they weren't on this record, then whoever did master it was at least competent enough to not screw anything up (which is the real danger of good mastering). I want to say Tom Baker did Stag but I could be wrong.
Honky seemed to have much of the same approach, but probably cut some corners due to budget. The sound is still excellent.
I think (A) Senile Animal is the best sounding record they did after that, although as mentioned elsewhere Pigs of the Roman Empire has the band sounding supreme. We'll leave the soundscapes out of this discussion as it's not really relevant to comparing albums.
I've heard Buzz on numerous occasions defending against blanket attacks on the major label system. There is/was a lot wrong with it, but that system allowed the band to make three amazing albums with mostly their own creative freedom. Buzz has found various outlets to explain what didn't work about the relationship with Atlantic (bad touring demands, music video hassles, marketing budgets and possibly misrepresentation) but I've never heard him express regrets about the recording/mixing/final product of those three records especially Stoner Witch and Stag.
I also want to say that Bulls & Bees sounded great (listening to the CD). Tres Cabrones sounds pretty awesome in most places. Sausages is all over the place (the Melvins Lite songs and the Bowie song are the ones I really dig sonically). Bride Screamed sounds great.
In reference to sample replacement on snare... this is so common among sound engineers you would be amazed. Probably 80% of rock albums in the past two decades have used this. People commonly pull Bonham or Grohl or a few other butt naked snare sounds from exceptional recording sessions. I worked with a producer who had a coveted collection of them. If you got rid of all records that had a sample beefing up the snare, you'd probably lose half your favorite records.
i agree with every single word you just said
Quote from: (the) Razor on May 10, 2014, 01:36:53 AM
I think Stoner Witch is also the best sounding and mixed 'rock' album I've ever heard sonically.
no doubt about that! Stag and Stoner Witch are some of the best produced albums in rock music
Quote from: amazonAMAZON on May 09, 2014, 04:17:45 PM
I DIDN'T REALIZE SO MANY MELVINS FANS WERE DEAF TO SONIC PROPERTIES...
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