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He has called Thomas Sowell the 'greatest philosopher'. Sowell just tweeted out that racism only exists bc politicians are using it to get votes (only an extremely sheltered person could believe that). Sowell -and back we are to science- has also said some insanely ignorant shit about climate change.

He really should stay in his lane and just discuss music and other creative pursuits, and the music business. He has plenty of non-ignorant things to say about them.

What are your credentials to preach against a black economist in his 80s about race relations? Maybe you should read a few of his books with an open mind. They're very easy to read. He's an economist that uses stats to illustrate his arguments, and he's seen a lot more than you.

You should stay in your lane and just stick to playing Xbox in your mom's basement.

So, I noticed you ignored the climate change remark I made, so I'll hit that first.

I've heard Sowell dilating at length on various topics on multiple occasions. I'm familiar with his idiotic arguments. You didn't want to touch the climate change one, did you? I'm extremely well-informed on that one, and his assertion that 'intellectuals' have confabulated it cuts against basic reality. Scientists , not intellectuals, based on decades of accumulated data and research in sundry fields around the world maintain the truth of climate change. We have piles and piles of empirical data regarding it. Sowell was completely wrong on this, but has never acknowledged it. That marks him out either as an idiot or a prevaricator.

As far as racism, if your argument is that it's exclusively economic, I will simply disagree with that. I personally hear and have heard racist sentiments out of the mouths of poor people, middle class people, and well-off people. Yes, they confide in me for whatever reason- they assume I share their sentiments.

But , here, let's quote Sowell's words which were a bit different-

'Racism is not dead, but it is on life support — kept alive by politicians, race hustlers and people who get a sense of superiority by denouncing others as "racists."'

From my own experience having lived in very white communities with a fair number of racists, I find this claim laughable. If you're wondering if I'm labeling people racist who might not be, Im talking about people who go on and on about the N----s. And when younger, people who would go and find blacks to beat up on the weekends. They weren't doing that because of a politician or being called racist. lol

You don't appear to have any argument whatsoever. BTW The difference between me saying 'stay in my lane' and you saying it, is that I pointed out an indisputable fact in my initial post. That overuse of antibiotics is leading to superbugs.

btw, Pew Research -

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019/04/09/race-in-america-2019/

If 70%+ of black Americans feel race relations are getting worse as of last year, how can someone say 'racism is on life support'? If you want to say that's just their perception, then why should Sowell's life experiences count more than theirs?

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019/04/09/race-in-america-2019/

We also have racial hate crime statistics. They reached a 16 year high last year per the FBI.


People who try to debate me typically lose, or pretend they didn't lose.

You can respond saying I still don't get it (you'd be wrong) and come up with some other nonsense, or you can stop embarrassing yourself. It's your call.

No, you didn't get it. Let me try once more

You said Trump was elected because of 'cancel culture', correct? Yes? Is that a fair reading of what you initially said? Yes? Agreed?

So I noted that Bush was re-elected although people like the dixie chicks (and some others) were cancelled (ie, being tossed from the radio amongst other things) for their political stance against his foreign policies. Yes, get that?

Then I said  'so I guess it only works one way'.  Does that mean that people on the 'right' aren't censored? No, I never said that. You simply didn't read what I typed carefully enough, and you jumped to an ideological assumption. I was referring to the idea of a presidential election being decided based on artists on the other side being 'cancelled' (which is a comically reductionist idea that ignores numerous factors, but I was playing along with it).

I apologize for being so on-the-nose with the hero worship statement. I mean, your rhetoric is getting pretty heated there buddy.

In any event, you failed to actually articulate why someone should not be criticized for their public statements. You just vented some of your personal feelings.

He really should stay in his lane and just discuss music and other creative pursuits, and the music business. He has plenty of non-ignorant things to say about them.

"Stay in his lane".  What a bunch of modern day judgemental know-it-all bullshit. 

This leads me to a guess that you haven't read and listened to the amount of stuff about Buzz and the band that most of the regulars here have.  He's repeatedly said people should never look to musicians/entertainers for advice or wisdom about shit.  He states his opinions because he's obviously a thinking person who's developed lots of them over a career of making music that stomps minds into the ground and people ask him about stuff.

We are all making judgments all the time about everything. So I don't get your complaint, or how it is 'modern day'. If anything, it seems people increasingly want their feelings and needs to override facts, which is how we end up with a lot of stupid policies and behavior.

Yes, I've heard him say people shouldn't look to musicians etc. But he doesn't hesitate to voice his views confidently, which is fine. But other people are allowed to use their free speech to comment on it. That's how things work, or should.  If people need Buzzo or another musician to have a safe space, free of criticism, well, I don't know what to tell ya. Seems a case of hero worship

Ah, yes the Dixie Chicks. I remember that controversy from, what's it been, 16, 17 years ago? I also remember how they instantly became the favorite country musicians of people who don't like country music. So terrible what those right wingers did to them. If it's not Elvis and his swiveling hips corrupting America's youth, it's the Dixie Chicks. (Note: Do not under any circumstances admit the existence of Kanye West, Scarlett Johansson, Quentin Tarantino, Todd Phillips, Bill Hicks, Drew Brees, In-N-Out Burger, numerous YA novelists and conservative guest speakers at universities.)
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I was responding to what you said- 'This idea that an artist should be "canceled" for not voting for the right party is, IMO, how you end up with Trump in the first place.'  Reread what I typed, it was quite a specific thing in response to your specific remark.  It wasn't about censorship or boycotts in general, but about your statement that boycotts is 'how you end up with Trump'. Again, reread what I wrote carefully, not what you might THINK I typed.

Their music is completely negligible, but yes, it was actually pretty terrible what happened to the Dixie Chicks. Apparently, you don't seem to think so. So, I don't really get your stance. But , whatever.

My point is, one the scale of BAD SHIT that a musical artist can be responsible for? Buzz saying "I should be able to go to the store and by anti-biotics whenever I want" is him spewing Libertarian views that have very much to do with "I should be able to do whatever I want to with my own body" without thinking it all of the way through how that freedom of choice might affect others. At least he isn't a woman-beating, child-raping piece of shit. I've been reading and listening to Buzz interviews for decades; it is not like he is a social-media influencer telling people to skip vaccinating their children. I would wager to believe that most of his dedicated fans except for Greg Gutfeld and some people from Orange County don't align with most of his political beliefs.

Sorry about your friend. Losing friends just sucks - I wish you the best in dealing with that.

I mean-  apples/oranges.  Since I wasn't remotely calling him a 'bad person', I don't understand why you're bringing up pedophiles. One is an individual criminal behavior, the other is spreading misinformation. Unless the idea is we should just let musicians say whatever retarded shit they want and not call them on it, just bc we like their music.

. Moreover, even if they were Trump fans, so what? This idea that an artist should be "canceled" for not voting for the right party is, IMO, how you end up with Trump in the first place.

I'd like to point out 2 things. First is- when GW Bush was president, the Dixie Chicks famously got 'canceled' from country radio  and boycotted bc they criticized the Iraq War. GW Bush got re-elected, so apparently this works only in one direction? I could give many other examples.

The second is sadly ironic. I won't go into excruciating detail, but the Trump response to Covid-19 was inept for a number of reasons specific to the Trump administration (ie, his incompetent appointment to head the CDC, the choice to removed the Pandemic team from the NSC, etc).

'So what?' you ask.  Well, all the artists we all like to see live-  their opportunities to tour are ruined. Now, that would have happened anyway for a while, but the time of that is inarguably extended now due to Trump's response. And if things are loosened, they will get tightened again as another wave hits.

So, any musician that voted for trump basically slit their own throats. Funny how that works.

Buzz is very Libertarian.

Jimi Hendrix beat one of his girlfriends with a telephone.
Frank Zappa fucked many groupies with a wife and kids at home.
Miles Davis was a pimp.
Chuck Berry filmed women peeing without their consent.
James Brown did so much bad shit you can barely keep track.
Roy Estrada (of Captain Beefhear and Zappa fame) is a pedophile.
Dave Holland (Judas Priest drummer) was a pedophile.
Hell, for that matter, a majority of the touring rock stars of the late 60's through the 80's had their fair share of underage groupie escapades.

Buzz is very Libertarian. I may not agree with all of his politics, but then, I also don't agree with all of Jello Biafra's politics either. At least he ain't Ted Nugent!

What's your point? It's not like I'm saying ppl shouldn't buy his albums or something. Nor am i making it a matter of morality, but ignorance vs knowledge. We have people these days spreading bullshit everywhere, and that is disintegrating society. As I have to LIVE in society, I'd rather not have dangerous ignorance spread. As well, a friend recently almost died from a superbug and I know someone involved in research in that area and what they tell me is pretty alarming.

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Then you don't agree w/Buzzo's views but that's fine. I'm going to comment on the original post and I noticed you also questioned this first-time poster's intentions. He does make vague points and the only claim he leaves a source has a misleading quote pulled. Anyway, I think it's a weird culture where everybody thinks people they don't agree w/aren't allowed to express their opinions.

Explain how my quote was misleading. Go to the link and read it. I didn't misrepresent anything there.

Also, I love how you think I said he shouldnt be allowed to express his opinion. Did I advocate censorship, or am I saying he shouldn't talk about something he's completely ignorant about? There is a difference.

In closing Buzz refusing antibiotics and being fond of an obscure scholar seems tame by comparison. Antibiotics aren't a guaranteed fix for some people and even as sarcastic as he gets he isn't hateful towards anyone as far as I can tell.

He didn't say he refuses antibiotics. He said he doesn't understand why you need a prescription for them. He says it 'makes no sense'. That's really fucking ignorant .  Overuse of antibiotics causes harm not just to the person doing it, but to others.

Didn't read the article but if he's talking about antobiotics being overused. I believe he is right.

Also...pretty funny that what, there's like 300 million American's and they can't find anyone to go up against Trump? 
The country itself is more messed up than Buzz's opinion.

No, no...he is saying the opposite. He is saying he has no idea why antibiotics need a prescription. Completely oblivious.

[no difference whatsoever]

The only thing  that could turn me away from the band and Buzz, is that they had gone Kid Rock and supported the clown in the White House. As long as Buzz keeps it to himself, he can mean and believe anything on that subject and I`m certain he understands that that would be the dumbest he could ever do, to express support for the Beast, cause then he would alienate a lot of fans in a blink.

Btw, a strange first post from a new or perhaps old member, I wonder what the intentions are.

Well, you can read what he says about trump in the same interview I linked. He says he doesn't support him, but that there's no difference whatsoever between him and his opponent and that trump can't make things worse. Subsequent events have laid waste to that

As far as my intentions? Who gives a shit? This is a melvins forum. Buzzo makes public statements on topics, he's open to criticism of them. Particularly since I've bought many Melvins releases for many years, I feel fine in criticizing someone I have financially supported.

I find his interviews often entertaining and insightful, but at the same time, he opines on things that make him seem ..well...here's some examples


'https://originalfuzz.com/blogs/magazine/buzz-osborne-the-greatest-minority-of-all

'Antibiotics, anything. Why should I have to have a fucking prescription for that? It doesn't make any sense. '

Do I need to explain what a superbug is? lol


He also made some pretty ignorant remarks about Covid-19 in a radio interview, but that was early-ish on. Basically anything involving science he should not be speaking about. He appears to have no education whatsoever in that area.

He has called Thomas Sowell the 'greatest philosopher'. Sowell just tweeted out that racism only exists bc politicians are using it to get votes (only an extremely sheltered person could believe that). Sowell -and back we are to science- has also said some insanely ignorant shit about climate change.

He really should stay in his lane and just discuss music and other creative pursuits, and the music business. He has plenty of non-ignorant things to say about them.