Excellent King Buzz interview from 10/25/2010

Started by zdrum1984, November 27, 2010, 01:23:07 PM

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spunkmonkey

QuoteI'm sort of upset about the comments on Wal-Mart, saying their crime was, "Selling stuff for cheaper and everyone else." I as a individual would question why? Or how? In which, I know why they can do that. Bigger corporations can afford to pay people in other countries for less than what they could do here and they bring it back and sell it. When you boil it down. A little place owned by local residents, no chance in Hell they could pull that off.

This really has nothing o do with it.  Almost everything is made cheaply in third world countries, or countries with tons of cheap labor (China & India).  It's all about economies of scale.  Mom & Pop stores buy 100 of something, Wal-Mart buys 10,000,000.  Who's going to get the better deal?

dead mike

Quote from: Jaron on November 29, 2010, 01:29:34 AM
I hate that I watched this interview. In yet, I'd wanna talk to him more. Especially about his comments on Wal-Mart. Buzz portrays himself as sort of a conservative Republican almost. I'm sort of upset about the comments on Wal-Mart, saying their crime was, "Selling stuff for cheaper and everyone else." I as a individual would question why? Or how? In which, I know why they can do that. Bigger corporations can afford to pay people in other countries for less than what they could do here and they bring it back and sell it. When you boil it down. A little place owned by local residents, no chance in Hell they could pull that off. Also, the people that make the cheap things they sell don't have any insurance the company has to pay. Now, I hear him talking about health care and jobs. I personally think in that we should take care of ourselves and others for the sole fact that if I got sick or was hurt I'd hope someone would help me not just say, "Well good luck with that." I can understand why someone would say, "Well, I don't wanna pay for some other lowlife who's going to use my money to sit on their ass and do nothing", but I think we've spiraled so far down that we have more people that would do that now just, because of how our life styles have become. Eh, it's a big mess and there's no real solution I know, but it's something we should pay more attention to. For example if people were to all find out that there was no God, that when we die there's nothing, we would maybe try and make life a little bit better while were here instead of not caring about posterity and the others around us.

This probably isn't a well thought out statement, but I'm tired and want to go to bed.

Quote from: Bigval on November 29, 2010, 09:24:04 AM
Pretty disappointed in Buzz's Wal-Mart comments but hey I knew the guy was a right-winger. Buzz should educate himself a bit more on the stuff Wal-Mart get up to it's far from his simplistic "their only crime is to sell things cheaper than everyone else". He's not as stupid as that. The guy obviously hasn't got a problem with them screwing over their workers. Then again I can't say I've ever cared for anything I've heard come out of Buzz's mouth. I won't open up on him too much here because I know a lot of melvins fans being fiercely loyal will get their noses out of joint. Stick to appearing on Fox News, Buzz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Wal-Mart

OMG A MUSICIAN I LIKE HAS OPINIONS THAT ARE DIFFERENT FROM MY OWN.

Can you all shut your damn cocks for one second? Music is the only thing that's real in this queef world of dildo ass chodes.

              - hemispheres

(the) Razor

Quote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Wal-Mart

Unions, religious organisations, grassroots campaigns, environmental groups and labor groups complaining about a businesses? What's exactly new here?
Don't click this

Leroy

I love Buzz's music, but he does'nt know a damn thing about politics.  I mean, this is the guy who said something like "They should have bombed a millon dollar rap video shoot instead" or "If I had my choice, there would be a dead carcass hanging off of every street lamp" (or something like that).  He obviously is not one to be taken seriously.


buzz, stick to writing music (which he is still amazing at)

bgpurzycki

Quote from: rictus on November 29, 2010, 11:15:18 AM
Quote from: Bigval on November 29, 2010, 09:24:04 AMThe guy obviously hasn't got a problem with them screwing over their workers.

They don't have to work there.

No, they don't.  But again, the point is that they aren't democratically run.  Walmart doesn't dig unions (which, like governments are only as good as people can and do make them).  When people want better wages at the place they rent themselves out to, not allowing them to have a say in their value is tyrannical.  You have to play ball and then you get better wages.  Anyone who has had a boss or incompetent supervisor knows this isn't about hard work either.

dead mike

Quote from: buzunool on November 29, 2010, 03:39:49 PM
Quote from: rictus on November 29, 2010, 11:15:18 AM
Quote from: Bigval on November 29, 2010, 09:24:04 AMThe guy obviously hasn't got a problem with them screwing over their workers.

They don't have to work there.

No, they don't.  But again, the point is that they aren't democratically run.  Walmart doesn't dig unions (which, like governments are only as good as people can and do make them).  When people want better wages at the place they rent themselves out to, not allowing them to have a say in their value is tyrannical.  You have to play ball and then you get better wages.  Anyone who has had a boss or incompetent supervisor knows this isn't about hard work either.
What on earth do you mean by "democratically run" within a business context? Should a union control how a corporation does business? Where does that leave employees who aren't members of the union? Notwithstanding unions, where does a "democratic" corporation handle shareholders outside the company? How about customers?
Can you all shut your damn cocks for one second? Music is the only thing that's real in this queef world of dildo ass chodes.

              - hemispheres

bgpurzycki

Quote from: dead mike on November 29, 2010, 04:50:35 PM
Quote from: buzunool on November 29, 2010, 03:39:49 PM
Quote from: rictus on November 29, 2010, 11:15:18 AM
Quote from: Bigval on November 29, 2010, 09:24:04 AMThe guy obviously hasn't got a problem with them screwing over their workers.

They don't have to work there.

No, they don't.  But again, the point is that they aren't democratically run.  Walmart doesn't dig unions (which, like governments are only as good as people can and do make them).  When people want better wages at the place they rent themselves out to, not allowing them to have a say in their value is tyrannical.  You have to play ball and then you get better wages.  Anyone who has had a boss or incompetent supervisor knows this isn't about hard work either.
What on earth do you mean by "democratically run" within a business context? Should a union control how a corporation does business? Where does that leave employees who aren't members of the union? Notwithstanding unions, where does a "democratic" corporation handle shareholders outside the company? How about customers?

I said they're NOT democratically run.  As an employee, one doesn't have the ability to negotiate one's value.  If you're renting out yourself--which is what we do as employees, you either take what you can get or look elsewhere.  That's not democratic.  Why should businesses be?  Well, if we dig "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", and we take responsibility seriously, and if you're renting other people for your labor, then perhaps their liberties are being impinged upon if you don't allow them to negotiate the quality of their lives.

No, unions don't need to "control how a corporation does business".  As an employee, if you want more say in your destiny, then unions can help if you decide to participate.  They're democratic.  That said, unions have the potential to influence business.  If you think that's the same as "control", then it's no wonder where your comments are coming from.  If you don't want to join a union and you don't have to, then don't complain about how much your job and wages suck.  Unions can get pretty bad, but again, they're closer to democratic institutions than Walmart (if we're using them as a model).

Corporations are not democratic.  By law they are legal humans and the people that make them up are covered under limited liability.  Not sure what the "where does a 'democratic' corporation handle..." question means.  Democracy and corporate capitalism have been systematically diametrically opposed in both theory and practice.

Customers engage in financial transactions with business.  I'm assuming you've steered this to a discussion of capitalism at large.  You [edit:  not you, but the other guy] were talking about employees as though they were customers (i.e., "don't have to work there" is like "then don't buy it").  These are different relationships.  At any rate--Adam Smith's vision of capitalism failed.  The very existence of corporations violates his vision.  Read Wealth of Nations, compare this to Walmart and then you tell me how closely they fit.

ManWithNoName

Unions are sometimes greasier than corporations. Especially when it comes to how "democratic" they are.

I can't speak for the states, but some unions up here (Canada) are greasy as fuck, have ties with the mafia and political parties as well as influence legislation. Their influence is, in my opinion, often times fart greater than it needs to be.

Democracy sounds great in theory but unfortunately people are either stupid, lazy, greasy or all of the above.

dead mike

Quote from: buzunool on November 29, 2010, 05:19:48 PM
Quote from: dead mike on November 29, 2010, 04:50:35 PM
Quote from: buzunool on November 29, 2010, 03:39:49 PM
Quote from: rictus on November 29, 2010, 11:15:18 AM
Quote from: Bigval on November 29, 2010, 09:24:04 AMThe guy obviously hasn't got a problem with them screwing over their workers.

They don't have to work there.

No, they don't.  But again, the point is that they aren't democratically run.  Walmart doesn't dig unions (which, like governments are only as good as people can and do make them).  When people want better wages at the place they rent themselves out to, not allowing them to have a say in their value is tyrannical.  You have to play ball and then you get better wages.  Anyone who has had a boss or incompetent supervisor knows this isn't about hard work either.
What on earth do you mean by "democratically run" within a business context? Should a union control how a corporation does business? Where does that leave employees who aren't members of the union? Notwithstanding unions, where does a "democratic" corporation handle shareholders outside the company? How about customers?

I said they're NOT democratically run.  As an employee, one doesn't have the ability to negotiate one's value.  If you're renting out yourself--which is what we do as employees, you either take what you can get or look elsewhere.  That's not democratic.  Why should businesses be?  Well, if we dig "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", and we take responsibility seriously, and if you're renting other people for your labor, then perhaps their liberties are being impinged upon if you don't allow them to negotiate the quality of their lives.

No, unions don't need to "control how a corporation does business".  As an employee, if you want more say in your destiny, then unions can help if you decide to participate.  They're democratic.  That said, unions have the potential to influence business.  If you think that's the same as "control", then it's no wonder where your comments are coming from.  If you don't want to join a union and you don't have to, then don't complain about how much your job and wages suck.  Unions can get pretty bad, but again, they're closer to democratic institutions than Walmart (if we're using them as a model).

Corporations are not democratic.  By law they are legal humans and the people that make them up are covered under limited liability.  Not sure what the "where does a 'democratic' corporation handle..." question means.  Democracy and corporate capitalism have been systematically diametrically opposed in both theory and practice.

Customers engage in financial transactions with business.  I'm assuming you've steered this to a discussion of capitalism at large.  You [edit:  not you, but the other guy] were talking about employees as though they were customers (i.e., "don't have to work there" is like "then don't buy it").  These are different relationships.  At any rate--Adam Smith's vision of capitalism failed.  The very existence of corporations violates his vision.  Read Wealth of Nations, compare this to Walmart and then you tell me how closely they fit.
So what's the alternative then?
Can you all shut your damn cocks for one second? Music is the only thing that's real in this queef world of dildo ass chodes.

              - hemispheres

bgpurzycki

Quote from: ManWithNoName on November 29, 2010, 05:36:25 PM
Unions are sometimes greasier than corporations. Especially when it comes to how "democratic" they are.

I can't speak for the states, but some unions up here (Canada) are greasy as fuck, have ties with the mafia and political parties as well as influence legislation. Their influence is, in my opinion, often times fart greater than it needs to be.

Democracy sounds great in theory but unfortunately people are either stupid, lazy, greasy or all of the above.

No doubt.  But you can participate in them.  Like I said earlier, they're as good as they're members make them.  And yeah, if we're mostly stupid, lazy, and greasy (which we are), then it will be.  But I seriously question whether they are "greasier than corporations".  Structurally, the latter are inherently totalitarian.  By design they're greasy.  Unions by design maximize decision-making potential of its members.

Mad Arab

I do support unions on a local level as I believe a man or a woman should have some say in their work place. It's when you get into the upper echelons that you get into the dirt and grime.

You also have a choice if you want to "sell" your time to an employer if the overall price is right. What's not democratic about that?

bgpurzycki

So what's the alternative then?
[/quote]

Plenty of alternatives.  Remember, when Wealth of Nations was written, corporations were banned in Britain.  Thomas Jefferson despised them (and paper money interestingly enough).  These guys both knew how money and politics work.  I mean, REAL capitalism would be great I think (Smith sounds like a pinko commie by today's retarded standards).  But with unaccountable concentrations of capital (i.e., corporations) it doesn't work and too many people get fucked over (and I think we get stupid and lazy, but it's a hypothesis).  Real capitalism would heighten accountability at least.  But then again, economists (see Bowles and Gintis) have found...empirically...that when employees own their products, they are more productive, quality of production skyrockets, and life satisfaction is higher.  Well, duh.  There are a lot of worker-owned publishers, agriculture co-ops, record labels, etc. etc.  It's perfectly doable.

Quote from: Joe Deutrom on November 29, 2010, 05:56:03 PM
I do support unions on a local level as I believe a man or a woman should have some say in their work place. It's when you get into the upper echelons that you get into the dirt and grime.

You also have a choice if you want to "sell" your time to an employer if the overall price is right. What's not democratic about that?

It's not a matter of democracy to choose who is going to pay you the best.  It's taking what options you have.  We're not debating free will here.  Who dictates the price (operative word being "dictate")? 

MrLuck87

Quote from: Leroy on November 29, 2010, 02:33:16 PM
\ I mean, this is the guy who said something like "They should have bombed a millon dollar rap video shoot instead" or "If I had my choice, there would be a dead carcass hanging off of every street lamp" (or something like that).  He obviously is not one to be taken seriously.

Because Buzz was completely, 100% serious about bombing a rap video and there isn't the slightest hint of a joke there.

dead mike

Quote from: buzunool on November 29, 2010, 06:00:05 PM
There are a lot of worker-owned publishers, agriculture co-ops, record labels, etc. etc.  It's perfectly doable.
Until the company realizes it has to start laying people off and cutting benefits and gold-plated pensions in order to survive an economic downturn. Or until the "worker-owned" company has to compete with a foreign company that is able to make the same widget at half the cost of the feel-good union shop here in the United States. This whole time, you've assumed that the workers' interest is necessarily the public's interest. That is not always the case. Just look at GM. (Although thanks to our union-friendly President, they can now expect to get a bailout, shift the taxpayers' money around and call it a victory.)

Also, I'm pretty sure your characterization of corporate limited liability is incorrect.
Can you all shut your damn cocks for one second? Music is the only thing that's real in this queef world of dildo ass chodes.

              - hemispheres

MrLuck87

Quote from: Bigval on November 29, 2010, 09:24:04 AM
Pretty disappointed in Buzz's Wal-Mart comments but hey I knew the guy was a right-winger.

There are more than two ideologies.  Labeling Buzz as a right-winger is as silly as labeling the Melvins grunge.