Pigs of the Roman Empire

[Vcavallo]

have fun listening to your whooshes and clangs!

tony, i respect your ability to (usually) have a civilized discussion unlike alot of others here, so don't take this as an attack or something.  
Why does everyone keep saying this stuff about whooshes and clangs?!?! i don't hear the "vacuum" noises people talk about, or the trash can noises.  i hear music with a couple of extended intros and outros that are sometimes their own track.  this is not a noise album.

[TosT]

have fun listening to your whooshes and clangs!

tony, i respect your ability to (usually) have a civilized discussion unlike alot of others here, so don't take this as an attack or something.  
Why does everyone keep saying this stuff about whooshes and clangs?!?! i don't hear the "vacuum" noises people talk about, or the trash can noises.  i hear music with a couple of extended intros and outros that are sometimes their own track.  this is not a noise album.

yeah, i don't get either...

maybe you should take your own advice and stop huffing the melvins' dongs and you'd realize that it's not that great.

you know, people can say they don't like something without being called "crybabies," you know. i think there are too many people out there like you who are just total fanboys that will accept anything your favorite band does because you are unwilling or unable to do otherwise.

Tony, perhaps YOU should take your own advice, and not sink to the level of these "fanboys" and instead take the higher ground. opinions are opinions right? everyone's entitled to either love it or hate it. You're not helping your arguments by falling prey to using the same methods that you're critizing.
Just as you can dislike the album without being a crybaby, others can enjoy it without being an ignorant fanboy. right?

anywho, none of this is even worth posting about, it's got nothing to do with the melvins anymore...

[benton netty]

have fun listening to your whooshes and clangs!

tony, i respect your ability to (usually) have a civilized discussion unlike alot of others here, so don't take this as an attack or something.  
Why does everyone keep saying this stuff about whooshes and clangs?!?! i don't hear the "vacuum" noises people talk about, or the trash can noises.  i hear music with a couple of extended intros and outros that are sometimes their own track.  this is not a noise album.

i wouldn't call it a "noise" album, either. but it is noisy. and the musical stuff is just sub-par.

i don't know, "zzz best," yeah, that's just an intro to "safety third," but it doesn't really have anything to it. dale hits the kick a bunch. "toadi" is completely pointless and goes nowhere, and "pink bat" and "safety third" are merely okay melvins songs. honestly, does anyone think that those two songs are anything special, really? i can think of 50 melvins songs i like better. and i hate the way they're produced or mixed.

but "III," "idolatrous," the bonus track, and the first half of "pigs" -- what is that stuff but a bunch of wind noises, bangs, and things of that nature? there's nothing musical, really, about that stuff. it's sound, yes. it has a pitch center (on occasion). but i don't know if it counts as music. sound effects, sure.

[benton netty]

Tony, perhaps YOU should take your own advice, and not sink to the level of these "fanboys" and instead take the higher ground. opinions are opinions right? everyone's entitled to either love it or hate it. You're not helping your arguments by falling prey to using the same methods that you're critizing.
Just as you can dislike the album without being a crybaby, others can enjoy it without being an ignorant fanboy. right?

anywho, none of this is even worth posting about, it's got nothing to do with the melvins anymore...

how exactly do you think i'm falling prey to using the same methods as i'm criticizing? i don't like the album, and i can discuss it without being an idiot (unlike some others on here) and just posting two sarcastic, snarky sentences. you may disagree with me, but people should be able to say that they hate something without having people take it personally. i don't care if you love or hate the album, it doesn't affect me. but when people say things like "it's brilliant" or whatever, i'll debate that. no one on this board has said WHY they think it's so great. and the worst thing is when people say things like "the melvins are always changing, and if you can't accept that, then blah blah blah..." i hate that. these are the people that will defend everything the band does. jesus, get a personality. you'd have to be a fool to think that everything a band does is perfect at all times. and that goes for ANY band. and i've been a melvins geek for ten solid years, so i think i know to expect the unexpected.

there is no "higher ground" with opinion. it is what it is. some people don't know how to debate without getting overly defensive, however.

[TosT]

you make alot of good points,
but all i was intending to point out was that you said that "people can say they don't like something without being called "crybabies," you know",
then proceeded to tell someone to stop huffing the melvins dongs and realize that the album is not good.

and the "higher ground" i mentioned was in reference to the way people discuss their opinions, and obviously not the opinions themselves.

[benton netty]

you make alot of good points,
but all i was intending to point out was that you said that "people can say they don't like something without being called "crybabies," you know",
then proceeded to tell someone to stop huffing the melvins dongs and realize that the album is not good.

i'm not sure what these two things have to do with each other.

i can say "the album sucks," i can say "the album rules." either way, i don't deserve to be called a "crybaby" for disliking it. people are so unable to deal with a negative opinion, sheesh. there's a difference between expressing a negative reaction and whining. "whining" would be "waahhhhhh, the album sucks, my life is ruined, boo hooooo," and no one's said that. having an opinion and arguing it is not "whining."

i can also say that there are people that will hold anything their favorite bands do up as "great," and they'll say that anyone who disagrees is lacking in some way. or they'll call you a pantera fan.

and the "higher ground" i mentioned was in reference to the way people discuss their opinions, and obviously not the opinions themselves.

i thought i was on the higher ground, myself. i know that i've never done anything but talk about the album. i was attacked numerous times, and i responded to that, but i'm not some dude on here writing "MAAN PIGS IS THE BEST EVER AND YOUR DUMB IF YOU DONT THINKSO" or something.

[EGO the Living Planet]

I'm still lovin' the fuck out of this disc. Those "whooshes and clangs" and "vacuum noises" create a great cinematic atmosphere in my living room or car that I'm lovin'. The three "rock" tracks kick my ass. Yeah, the MELVINS have done better, but that's a damn high standard. The production and the noises on those tracks sound great to me, and add a feel to the music that I dig.  I still can't understand why this one's such a curveball for some folks. It sounds just like the MELVINS to me.

I can't wait for Never Breath What You Can't See as well. I've got a ton of shit to look foreward to in the next few weeks (Tom Waits, Hot Snakes, Hidden Hand, The Cramps, The Dwarves, Mos Def) but this ones gonna be right up there.

[exide]

I must say,I respect your opinions about the new album but I don't agree with you.I think it's a tolerable album and King Buzzo is still on top of his game as far as good guitar riffs and vocal parts is concern.King Buzzo is a gifted man!!To be frank,I think this is a good "transition album."

[exide]

Come on!!Think about some of the 70's bands that were around back in the days(not like I can remember).They had their "so-so"albums they put out from time to time you know...But nobody"I bet"could agree on how good they were when they came out...It's relative...It's perception.

[thegrumpylil'hermit]

i didnt read all of the posts in this thread but im sure its full of negative comments on the new album, so i thought id at least show my appreciation for it.  I think its really good, and i dont think it is something thats too unexpected from the Melvins really.  Its in a similar vein as 'Honky'(which i absolutely LOVE, one of my fav Melvins albums), its sorta atmospheric, which means you might have to approach it somewhat differently than the way you would when listening to a more conventional sounding rock album, or even a more conventional-sounding Melvins record.  For the most part, you're not supposed to be looking for hit singles here.  But even if you dont like the atmospheric stuff, how can you NOT at least enjoy a song like 'Pink Bat'...which absolutely fuckin' rocks!!  Its sorta Motorhead-ish, but still obviously the Melvins.  Its one of the more Melvins-type conventional songs on the album as well as is 'Safety Third' and 'the Bloated Pope', so its not like the Melvins didnt throw you a bone in there somewhere.  'Pink Bat' sorta reminds me of the Stoner Witch era and that song 'Instant Larry' for some reason.  Overall, i would say its one of those albums where you have to be in the right mood before putting it in for a listen(no, not necessarily stoned).  If you're not into weird atmospheric stuff, then you probably wont like this album on a whole, but i for one like how the Melvins seem to dabble in almost every musical genre there is.  That to me seems to have been the key to them surviving all these years.  There are times when im sick and tired of more conventional approaches to music, and albums like POTRE and Honky are the perfect remedy.  Songs like "Air Breather..." on Honky are alone worth the price of the album altogether.  Whatever, to each his own.

[grachan]

Right.

I got this yesterday, and have heard it twice.

I think it's far and away the finest LP they've put out since Honky. All this talk of 'only three good songs' seems a bunch of bullshit now that I've heard the damn thing. Bloated Pope is the track I'm least fond of, but Pigs of the Roman Empire damn near ALL ROCKS to my ears.

The title track has made a dream come true - anyone lucky enough to go to one of the Cameron Jamie shows in the UK last October will be overjoyed to finally have the soundtrack to 'Kranky Klaus' in their stereo.

I didn't expect it to blow me away at all. But it has.

Anyway...

Tony, I totally respect your stance on this LP. It doesn't do a great deal for you and you resent someone as talantless as Lustmord all over it, drowning out Dale and whatever else. But if you think I love this LP because I'm some kind of irrational fanboy you're very much mistaken. (FYI personally I have little time for their other Ipecac LPs, and find Stoner Witch and Bullhead, bonafide classics to the avarage fan, tedious and dull - not popular sentiments but I don't assume those that love these LPs are fanboys. That's just plain unneccessary and disrespectful.)

[Leroy]

I love the new album too, but I'm not hateful or nothing towards Tony.  He's just saying his opinion that's all.

[anti~vermin]

the melvins can do no wrong

[benton netty]

Right.

I got this yesterday, and have heard it twice.

I think it's far and away the finest LP they've put out since Honky. All this talk of 'only three good songs' seems a bunch of bullshit now that I've heard the damn thing. Bloated Pope is the track I'm least fond of, but Pigs of the Roman Empire damn near ALL ROCKS to my ears.

The title track has made a dream come true - anyone lucky enough to go to one of the Cameron Jamie shows in the UK last October will be overjoyed to finally have the soundtrack to 'Kranky Klaus' in their stereo.

I didn't expect it to blow me away at all. But it has.

Anyway...

Tony, I totally respect your stance on this LP. It doesn't do a great deal for you and you resent someone as talantless as Lustmord all over it, drowning out Dale and whatever else. But if you think I love this LP because I'm some kind of irrational fanboy you're very much mistaken. (FYI personally I have little time for their other Ipecac LPs, and find Stoner Witch and Bullhead, bonafide classics to the avarage fan, tedious and dull - not popular sentiments but I don't assume those that love these LPs are fanboys. That's just plain unneccessary and disrespectful.)

dude! you think stoner witch and bullhead are tedious and dull, and you have little time for the ipecac LP's, but you think pigs of the roman empire "rocks"? i think your definition of "rocks" is probably quite different from mine. does a track like "idolatrous apostate" "rock" to you?

i give up. i can't even begin to figure this one out.  

why are you posting on this board? i'm honestly wondering -- it seems like you barely like the melvins' usual fare.

[grachan]

i think your definition of "rocks" is probably quite different from mine. does a track like "idolatrous apostate" "rock" to you?

i give up. i can't even begin to figure this one out.

I don't think its about definitions of 'rocking' as it is about pure and simple personal taste. All I know is that Pigs is the kind of LP I've been waiting for the melvins to make - recent ones simply haven't held up to repeated listens (i.e. I got bored quickly).

Idolatrous Apostate doesn't 'rock' in the traditional sense but (IMO) it fits nicely. I feel the whole LP is well composed and structured, and the final track adds to this sense.

I don't think I'm a Melvins superfan at all. In fact, I'm hardly a 'rock' fan - certainly as a loose genre 'rock' gets by far the smallest piece of my music money. Melvins are one of the only 'guitar' bands I'm truly fond of because they've made some timeless records (Gluey, Lysol, Stag, Honky). I was just trying to (cackhandedly) illustrate to you that it's possible to totally LOVE Pigs without being some kind of Melvins lapdog.

And I post here because although some Melvins LPs grate on me I adore some of the others. And I like the vibe and folks of this place - including yourself when you showed up.  

Anyway, good day to you and everyone.